FORMS: USING THEM IN A ACTUAL FIGHT & SPARRING

[kempocos]

From teaching TKD for 6 years I can tell you that forms shouldn't even be thought about when fighting. The only reason we teach them is because the WTF requires them for certification. I tell students that forms are the art portion of martial arts then there is the practical side of martial arts.

 

speak to an okinawian stylist from the Nakmura/Odo/Oyata lineage they will be able to show you the worth of breaking down the Kata/Forms. The mindset is along the lines of , a block is a strike is a lock is a throw. Also much of it grapple based using muscle tears and joint destruction..

[Shane]

Forms should be the last thing on your mind in a real fight and even in sparring. I know a lot of people will tell you different but its true. There is meaning and principals behind the techniques in your forms, but to actually apply them you need to train them as individual techniques and learn the many variations of them and what it feels like with an actually attacker in front of you. And one must also learn that things never go as we would like them to that is why training the individual techniques from your forms seperate in a realistic manner is a must.

 

Now if you start doing a form in a real fight your attacker might start laughing at you so hard that he might fall to the ground and knock himself out, or possibly even laugh himself to death. If that happens let me know because we can call your form the kata of death!

[kempocos]

Shane makes some good points, ALL kata/forms training should include Bunkai/breakdown and then OYO/drilling the techniques. Kata is often seen a a sequence or a fight rather than a grouping of techniques to pick from. Whenyou are alone the help with footwork, transition, syncing the breathing with the movement, body postion of a techniques , angle of strike. then when you OYO or drill you refine the timing and intent with your partner.

 

this way you do not think about Kata in a fight but rather react with what you have drilled

[GrrrArg]

Bunkai means to breakdown and explore the kata. Oyo is the application of the kata.

 

Kata were devised as a way of remembering large volumes of info. They ingraine moves into muscle memory.

 

There are a myriad of possible applications to everymove in every kata. Some of the them are very nasty and useful, some are nonsense.

 

IMO, if anyone thinks kata oyo cannot be used..they just dont know the good stuff. I used to think the same way, im happy to say im now a convert.

 

If you want more and better info, buy Bunkai Jutsu, by Iain Abernathy.

[scottnshelly]

I have studied taegeuks, palgueys (sp?) and chun gi patterns. I can see how they are beneficial for muscle memory, stamina, flow, etc. Most of the moves in taegeuks and palgueys are appicable, however, there are some moves in the chun gi patterns that seem like total crap. i've asked several Instructors in the area thier use and have come up empty-handed.

 

I have also learned some Kenpo forms like Long form 6. i can see how these are applicable. Seems like the Chinese forms are more useable than some of the Korean forms.

 

Anyone else notice this?

[Beka]

oh come on, didn't you ever see karate kid 3? THAT'S how you're supposed to use forms in a fight!

hahahahahahahhahaa!!!!!

 

Seriously though...

 

I see kata as a way to pull everything together into a cohesive whole. Okay, so we have a kick, a punch, a chop, a backfist, a hop, another kick, a block... All apart and on their own they don't always seem related, but doing kata and other combinations, it is possible to see physically what goes well with what. Of course, in a real fight, you won't be able to bust out with your forms and expect everything to fall into a proper place.

 

However, by doing applications to the forms, you see what the seemingly random flailings have to do with each other, and your style becomes a style, rather than just a collection. As for a real fight, I think it's best to do whatever comes naturally to you (don't do any funny 360 flying roundhouse kicks if you don't have to, I have a feeling you'll not pull it off right), and by learning the forms you will develop a natural feeling for the style, and you'll hopefully come out okay should the unfortunate occur.

[mafia]

dude forum isn't very help ful in real life find a trainer or just fight the street way

[Hudson]

dude forum isn't very help ful in real life find a trainer or just fight the street way

 

So, why are you on a forum?

 

The street way? I assume that means pick a fight and hope they aren't armed? Get sloppy, and then pick the wrong fight and get your rear end handed to you on a silver platter? No thanks. The forum is a great way to have open exchange of thoughts with other practicioners - never think you can't learn from someone.

 

And I think he said learn from FORMS, not forum.

 

And forms are great! There is so much hidden in forms that when explained to you you will already know because of practice. As far as forms being taught because they're "required"... not very enthusiastic, are we? Forms are a way to teach an entire curriculum in one set!

[cross]

If you dont like learning forms and you do a style that teaches them ask your instructor to show you some applications, if your still no satisfied change schools.

 

I personally place alot of importance in kata training.

[GojuRyu Shawn]

Katas are fighting multiple people simultaniously. But I dont think there can be a threesome sparring match.