Drunken Monkey Posted November 23, 2004 Posted November 23, 2004 "developed majority of them on the battle field or in preperation for the battlefield" again, i've said this before.... not quite. fighting maybe but not many things we do today were developed for 'battlefield'. the things for actual warfare are very different to the martial arts we train in today. the other thing i don't lke about use of the term 'battlefied' developed is that it romanticises the martial arts. ****mr miyagi mode engaged**** "fighting fighting same same....." post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Master Jules Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 I believe all martial arts by definition have elements of self defense......however......not all martial artists train for that purpose......some train for the physical workout, some for the spiritual aspects........while there are different reasons an individual may personally have for training......I think all martial arts have some type of self defense applications to them. ~Master Jules......aka "The Sandman""I may be a trained killer......but Im really a nice guy"
italian_guy Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 I believe all martial arts by definition have elements of self defense......however......not all martial artists train for that purpose......some train for the physical workout, some for the spiritual aspects........while there are different reasons an individual may personally have for training......I think all martial arts have some type of self defense applications to them. I agree with that, I can add that there are MA that are more efficient to teach you self defence ( I mean your self-defence skill increase more rapidly with training time compared to other arts), I'm thinking about JKD, krav Maga, BJJ, JJJ, Muay Thai and even boxing and kickboxing. But all of them increase your chance of survival in a street confrontation (even Tai chi chuan if you do martial applications).
AngelaG Posted November 24, 2004 Author Posted November 24, 2004 I do train for self-defence capabilites because even if there's only a 1 in 1,000,000 chance that I may get attacked I'm going to be well annoyed if I study karate and that one little chance happens and I can't fight my way out of a wet paper bag! It would be interesting to see if there are people out there that believe that have removed at traces of 'Martial' from their Martial Art and whether it would still help them or not. I guess though that even something like athletics helps your chances ina street conflict as you can run away faster, and you would have more strength/power... so the moment you embark on any sport you improve you chances of survival! Tokonkai Karate-do Instructorhttp://www.karateresource.com Kata, Bunkai, Articles, Reviews, History, Uncovering the Myths, Discussion Forum
Nick_UKWC Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 Whether or not the person taking the art is interested in the self defense applications of what they are doing all martial arts contain elements of self defense by very definition. It's not the self defense in the martial art that's the the issue, it's the self defense in the martial artist "...or maybe you are carrying a large vicious dog in your pocket." -Scottnshelly
Master Jules Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 Exactly my point Nick ~Master Jules......aka "The Sandman""I may be a trained killer......but Im really a nice guy"
Nick_UKWC Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 lol and almost exactly what you said as well, sorry man didn't see :| "...or maybe you are carrying a large vicious dog in your pocket." -Scottnshelly
Master Jules Posted November 24, 2004 Posted November 24, 2004 No problem.....you had the right idea.....good post. ~Master Jules......aka "The Sandman""I may be a trained killer......but Im really a nice guy"
italian_guy Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 I do train for self-defence capabilites because even if there's only a 1 in 1,000,000 chance that I may get attacked I'm going to be well annoyed if I study karate and that one little chance happens and I can't fight my way out of a wet paper bag! It would be interesting to see if there are people out there that believe that have removed at traces of 'Martial' from their Martial Art and whether it would still help them or not. I guess though that even something like athletics helps your chances ina street conflict as you can run away faster, and you would have more strength/power... so the moment you embark on any sport you improve you chances of survival! I think that training in self defence is always a matter of improving the chances of survival. The actual self defence situation depends on too many factors: your skill, your opponent skill, your fitness, your opponent fitness, available weapons both for you and for your assillant, the number of assillants, just to mention a few but there are a lot more. So whenever a system is too complicated from the deterministic point of view it should be studied statistically.This is why I say that training in self defence is always a matter of improving the chances of survival. What I wanted to say is this: 1) I agree with MJ and N_UKWC that thre is some dependence on the martial artist.Expecially on the importance that the martial artist give to self-defence in its own training. 2) It depends also on the art, there are arts that teach you self defence in a more optimized way however they usually lack of some other appealing aspects of TMAs. This was my opinion.
monkeygirl Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 I think every person should be able to defend themselves, but I don't think that every art (or every aspect of a single art) needs to be practical and teach you how to defend yourself in a real situation. Personally, I have a fairly good knowledge of self-defense, including street smarts and how to prevent the fight from ever happening. I enjoy the self defense (martial) aspect very much. However, I also really enjoy the artistic side to martial arts. For example, I'd love to study Wushu and Capoeira, even if they had nothing to do with fighting or self-defense, because their beautiful artistic sides fascinate me. In this way, the martial arts are a type of intense dance centered around fighting movements. They train your mind, tone your body...and for me, kata and artistic stuff is very relaxing and "soul-enriching". At the same time, I love to fight ...both realistic fighting and tournament-style point fighting. So, not every art needs self-defense, but every person does. I think this is an important distinction to make. I don't honestly think there is any one all-encompassing art that will make everyone happy...so if you want a few different aspects, you can cross-train in a few different styles that specialize on self-defense or point sparring or weapons or kata or NHB fighting. And then, each of those aspects have many sub-aspects (multiple weapons, smooth slow katas vs. hard fast katas, etc), and a style to go with it. It all depends on what blend you want. If you do it right, I think cross-training provides an extremely valuable level of personalization for the individual martial artist. Of course, you may not be able to achieve the same level of mastery as a person who concentrates on one art their entire life, but I think it can still be efficient. And if hours in the week weren't an issue, cross-training in all of those arts at once would be incredible. Of course, that's a pretty lofty ideal, but it's still a nice one 1st dan & Asst. Instructor TKD 2000-2003No matter the tune...if you can rock it, rock it hard.
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