Should there be an element of Self-defence in all MA?

[AngelaG]

angela.

 

"Anyone can get their butt kicked. Anyone can be sucker punched. Not everyone is doing MA for self defence. "

 

this is something i'm not sure if i'm entirely comfortable with.

 

i'm of the firm notion that a martial art, whether or not you are praticing for self defence,

 

SHOULD enable you to defend yourself.

 

if your training doesn't serve this purpose,

 

then i think something is 'missing'.

 

on the other hand,

 

i know this is whole other debate.....

 

And here is a whole other thread!

 

Personally I agree with you, if you are doing a Martial Art then somewhere along the line you should be learning something that will help you defend yourself were the worst to happen. However I don't think everyone thinks this way, sometimes they are there because the people they like are there, sometimes for physical fitnes, sometimes for the coolness factor ("I do karate" sounds cooler than "I do aerobics", right?). I think that if they don't want to see how their could help them in a real life fight then no matter how good the instructor is they will always be poor at that element.

 

Some dojo do nothing but competition type sparring, these people may not even realise it but if the try and use that stuff on the streets they will get their teeth handed to them in a bag.

 

I think that sometimes it has to do with envirnment as well. I live in a small town, with very little trouble. It can be hard to viualise why I need to train for these vicious assaults if there is only o.1% chance that I will ever get attacked. I do it, but I bet there are people at my dojo that don't consider it in the slightest.

 

Finally, consider that you had suddenly been rocketed up to the moon on your own. Would you still practice your MA? If it's for self defence why bother, there's no one around to assault you! If the answer is yes then I would draw the conclusion that you are doing it for a whole heap more reasons than self-defence!

[MenteReligieuse]

I said Yes because the question is kinda vague. Define an "element of self defense".

 

Wether you take ma to fight or not, you will gain some fighting skills along the way, wether you know it or not.

[Pacificshore]

Yes, sometimes self defense=self awareness to avoid problems. Dosen't always have to be physical

[Drunken Monkey]

......but.........

 

to train the martial art to it's 'best' you have to train as if you are going to be attacked.

 

i would argue that even if you don't give a drunken monkey's about self defence,

 

you should be training as if you are.

 

to paraphrase agent kujan:

 

a block isn't a block if it doesn't work.

 

if you train and your techniques don't work then you aren't training properly.

 

sure you can train for pefection of movement

 

but

 

i believe that the movement is perfect, or beginning to get to that stage when it works.

 

looking right doesn't make it right.

 

there's that old discussion about people mistaking the snap of the gi for sign of power.

 

sorry.

 

really messy but hopefully y'all understand what i mean.....

 

"......doing it for a whole heap more reasons than self-defence"

 

well, that's the thing.

 

i'm not saying that self defence is the main reason or the only reason or even if it's a reason at all.

 

i'm just saying that part of martial arts training is self defence.

 

y'know, it is something that is intrinsically part of it.

 

if you remove that element then i don't think it is a martial art anymore

 

(think chinese national wushu....)

[gheinisch]

I understand what your saying DM, and agree with you. We just had a discussion about this in our class a couple of weeks ago. Our Hanshi asked the question to the class if "they feel the blocks and techniques they do in kihon and kata would actually stop an attack". He was really questioning the intensity of some in the class to get them thinking about real life situations. If you don't practice in class like your life is on the line then it won't be there when you really need it. If you throw up a limp noodle block in class you'll do the same on the streets. If you practice strikes with a bent wrist in class you'll be nursing a broken wrist in real life. You must be reactive in the real world where fraction of seconds may be all you have with no second chances. Practice it like you mean it!!

Edited November 23, 2004 by gheinisch

[jarrettmeyer]

I agree with all of the above posts.

 

"Practice like you mean it."

 

MA is a great tool for self defense. Good MA, beyond just hitting people, should teach awareness, discipline, and confidence. Those should be used to diffuse a potential fight.

 

Even if you do MA for fitness, or personal growth, or even competition, you had better be learning how to take care of yourself.

 

One of things that my sensai teaches is that every technique, EVERY technique, see the ghost of your attacker in front on you. See your attackers in kata. See your attackers when you drill that side kick.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Right, there's a difference between martial arts (Okinawan karate, for example) and art (flower arranging). If there's no martial application, then there's no point in calling it a martial art.

 

I'm not going to pussyfoot around it and say "Oh, but you can train so that you don't have to fight". If that was the case, then it would be called "conflict avoidance arts". Yes, there is a time and a place for fighting, and I understand the strategic implications of when fighting is not necessary (I'm in the military, so it's pretty important). However, what it boils down to is that there has to be some martial aspect of it. As my signature can attest, I think this is a very important part of what I do...

[Drunken Monkey]

"you can train so that you don't have to fight"

 

i've always seen this as a badly worded.

 

i tend to think of it as:

 

training so you know how NOT to fight

 

or maybe even

 

training to not fight. (unless you HAVE to....)

 

using bad general examples

 

(which you all know i hate...)

 

a untrained fighter gets into a fight (opponent doesn't matter for this).

 

he flails wildly, without real control with only a general idea of what he has to do (hit the bugger.....)

 

during this exchange, he gets hurt and he might hurt himself.

 

the whole thing is much 'messier' than it needs to be.

 

some training later.

 

he gets into a fight.

 

he knows more about how to control his movements and the possible results.

 

still gets hurt but at least now he is more comfortable with it and emerged as an eventual 'winner'.

 

more training.

 

now he can fight.

 

he gets into a situation.

 

he knows how to effectively defend and control himself and the other guy.

 

he doesn't get hurt.

 

other guy doesn't really get hurt.

 

other guy realises the futility of his actions and pulls out a gun.......

 

 

anyway.

 

during his last dying breaths as his life flashes before his eyes,

 

he sees that in his training, he learnt what can be done and how much damage we really can do to each other.

 

he realises that if any old joe decides to have a go at him,

 

they might get hurt.

 

but hang on, if he can do all this, so can the next guy....

 

and what of other things..... like guns.....

 

.....hmmmm..... best to not fight.

 

but oops.

 

too late now.

[Shane]

If you could rocket to the moon, then so could others so I'd use the time I had to train to kick some butt when the others arrived so that I could be the dominate one on the moon and anounce myself King.

 

Okay so thats a little far fetched but so is the whole moon thing you started in this topic hahahaha.

 

Self Defense is a must in a martial art otherwise your not really doing a martial art. You have to look way back and how these techniques were developed majority of them on the battle field or in preperation for the battlefield, a lot has been implimented into the different arts for tradition and ways of life but never forget the battlefield application that is part of these traditions etc.

 

My Thoughts

[SevenStar]

it depends on the definition of self defense. As an online acquaintance from another forum says, "I may not be able to defend myself, but I sure as heck can fight"