MCDOJO Most common Style

[Budderfly]

The kids in our school are very mature and even though I am confident they could handle themselves and not "freeze up", they still know that it is better to avoid situations instead of getting in them.

 

Not all true. Kids sway to peer pressure. Peer pressure is a terrible thing to fight. It will cause many problems. And woe, if any negative peers should discover that a kid has a black belt. Not only does the kid have to battle peers, he has to cope on why he has the black belt that cannot aid him and will not thorughly understand its concept.

 

They understand that fighting is a last resort. And if they did get in a fight, they're not going to beat their attacker senseless, they are going to stun them and run away. This is the best thing anyone could ask for.

 

No, because they will not succeed against peer pressure. They will not always win in a fight. Therefore, they will get confused on their rank which their abilities could not back up. Their minds are not mature enough to deal with such situations. Thus, it becomes a big responsibility. Heck, even some adults have a problem with this.

 

What are the kids like in your dojang/dojo? You seem pretty solid on your thoughts.

 

The problem is that outside thoughts and peers view the black belt rank as the ultimate symbol for martial art ability. They are going to "test" this ability. I have many situations that I can tell you. There are pyschological effects when awarding such a belt to young minds. Also, I have talked to many child pychologists on this matter. We have a "Junior Dojo Belt". It is grey and not black. My "kids" realize that the "black" is reserved for adults. They realize that the rank is "over-rated". In fact, my kids see "black belt kids" from other MA schools get harrassed from non-MA kids. So what good is their (black belt kids) accomplishments if they have to hide their black belt out of embarassment to not get "picked on"? The rank became so commercialized and "dangled" to mean excellence. How can a child understand its concept when they get beat in a fight? The rank is a "sell out" to keep a student interested.

 

Well, opinions are like belly buttons - everybody has them.

 

Maybe all kids, like adults, act differently in a situation. I'm just saying I am proud of the students at our school for setting a personal goal and meeting it. They too, know that being a Black Belt doesn't mean that you have the right to start fights. It's self defense only. But they are wise enough to avoid conflict in the first place. They are quite humble for teenagers. I think focusing on their personal development and character is more important in the training instead of the physical aspect. It's quite rewarding seeing students acheive the goals they set as a person and as a martial artist.

[dear john]

im gonna side with 47mm on this. i know i kid in my class who is 13, he has been studying since he was 4 and he is current;y a 2th dan, i sparred him and he was pretty easy to beat. its not like i was going hard on him either, just light speedshots.

 

 

 

im 19 and have been taking TKD for 10 months. whats the point for this kid to have the belt if it really doesnt mean anything.

[47MartialMan]

Well, opinions are like belly buttons - everybody has them.

 

Yes, and I am not saying mine is righteous. All I am speaking from is experience and past situations.

 

Maybe all kids, like adults, act differently in a situation.

 

Kids have a constant problem with peer pressure. They are not actually matured enough not to sway away from all peer influences.

 

I'm just saying I am proud of the students at our school for setting a personal goal and meeting it.

 

Yes, being proud and meeting a goal is good. But do you have to use and rely on the black belt? Did you sell out the concept just to have the motivation and set goal? Why couldn’t you have used something else? If you are a good instructor, you, not the black belt, should be the motivator. The methods and their progressive levels alone should be the goal. Not ranking or a particular rank.

 

They too, know that being a Black Belt doesn't mean that you have the right to start fights. It's self-defense only

 

But you have to understand; I am not saying that they will be the ones to start fights.

 

But they are wise enough to avoid conflict in the first place. They are quite humble for teenagers.

 

They are not wise enough because they had not matured. If they were wise enough, why has socity set age standards? This is not to state, however, that some teens are a little more responsible than others. Their conflict is going to happen from peer pressure. Being humble has nothing to do with another non-MA kid picking a fight and whopping their butt.

 

I think focusing on their personal development and character is more important in the training instead of the physical aspect.

 

No, they are youths. They have youthful exuberance. They want the physical aspect. That is why they had joined. They did not join a cooking or painting class. One can develop character from other non-physical means. MA IS physical, no matter how you slice it.

 

It's quite rewarding seeing students achieve the goals they set as a person and as a martial artist.

 

Yes, being proud of accomplishments is one thing. But, the rank is misunderstood by non-MA. Now please, I BESEECH, do not take this or anything else offensive. But, perhaps you had lived a “sheltered teen life”? Perhaps, the current environment or town you live in, youths do not have these peer troubles. But as a teen, and as I see my kids-teens, the environment that they and I (as a teen) are exposed to, is heavily peer-pressured. And the black belt and such age, causes more harm than reward. And, I do not have to rely on such a symbol, to motivate and use as a goal.

[Flying Tiger]

The tuition fee at my dojang used to be $45 a month, but "due to inflation," the price has gone up to $55. Not too bad, considering another local school is charging $115 per month. I know of a nearby school that pumps out at least one black belt every year. And what style is it? TKD. It makes me sick how almost all TKD places (around here at least) are crappy "fighting systems." Most of the stuff around here needs to change their name, or switch the advertising around and start being more honest about what they do. These places aren't teaching worthwhile about self-defense, and more importantly, philosophy.So now there is a bunch of cocky bad fighters running around. Luckily, none of them come to my school (my high school that is). I also don't think children (under the age of 14) should be able to hold an adult black belt. My old ju-jitsu instructor came up with an idea to use a completely seperate ranking system for younger children, also came up with a name for a "softened" Manabi-Masho Ju-Jitsu. I don't remeber the name of it, but it translated as "The Little Warrior's Way." It was an excellent idea, and he did a lot of philosophical and moral teaching to the class, along with basic self-defense and non-lehtal techniques.

[47MartialMan]

The problem TKD has is that it came in fast and flooded the market. A lot of TKD schools promoted ranks too fast for the sake of opening and promoting more schools.

[Budderfly]

 

I'm just saying I am proud of the students at our school for setting a personal goal and meeting it.

 

Yes, being proud and meeting a goal is good. But do you have to use and rely on the black belt? Did you sell out the concept just to have the motivation and set goal? Why couldn’t you have used something else? If you are a good instructor, you, not the black belt, should be the motivator. The methods and their progressive levels alone should be the goal. Not ranking or a particular rank.

 

Yes you raise a good point about a school using a black belt, grey belt whatever belt, as a motivator - but yes I agree, it does come down to the instructor. And who said that my school relys on this piece of dark fabric? Or do you mean schools in general?

 

I wish they brought back the days of having two belts. White and Black... or even better... no belts at all.

 

I think focusing on their personal development and character is more important in the training instead of the physical aspect.

 

No, they are youths. They have youthful exuberance. They want the physical aspect. That is why they had joined. They did not join a cooking or painting class. One can develop character from other non-physical means. MA IS physical, no matter how you slice it.

 

Of course martial arts is physical but I believe there is a huge mental aspect too. Self-Control, Confidence, Respect, Perseverence.. the list goes on. Most students walk in thinking they're going to learn to "kick *" but then soon find that that's not what martial arts is about. Perhaps I feel strongly about this cause I like the philosophy behind it.

 

In most cases the younger students joined cause their parents signed them up. I've seen a few kids that really don't want to be there but they are cause their parents force them. Though we have tried to speak with the parent saying maybe they have another interest besides martial arts. Some agree, some want them to keep going. But that's another topic.

 

It's quite rewarding seeing students achieve the goals they set as a person and as a martial artist.

 

Yes, being proud of accomplishments is one thing. But, the rank is misunderstood by non-MA. Now please, I BESEECH, do not take this or anything else offensive. But, perhaps you had lived a “sheltered teen life”? Perhaps, the current environment or town you live in, youths do not have these peer troubles. But as a teen, and as I see my kids-teens, the environment that they and I (as a teen) are exposed to, is heavily peer-pressured. And the black belt and such age, causes more harm than reward. And, I do not have to rely on such a symbol, to motivate and use as a goal

 

No, I have not led a sheltered teen life and I am not offended. In fact I had to grow up at an early age and see the world with a different set of eyes than other kids. I lived on my own since I was 16 but I'm not going to get into that story cause it is personal and has nothing to do with this post. I have seen and felt peer pressure myself, but I have a choice. Do I give in or walk away? Perhaps it is the environment we live in, who knows. I'm not debating that the kids I know are better then the ones you teach... I just think that with the physical and mental knowledge they have gained, they turned out into well rounded individuals with ethics and morals. Young people being a part of society and setting good examples. And by them setting and achieving goals, I don't just mean black belt. I mean the smaller things like executing a good side kick, doing a good throw and being able to do a sweep. You don't need a belt to do that.

 

We're going way off topic now and perhaps this thread could be split by one of the moderators. I choose to walk away not to continue this discussion since it is going in circles. I agree with a lot of what you say 47, but I do have some different feelings about some points.

 

Cheers.

[47MartialMan]

I mean McDojo schools in general. We are talking about McDojos, the topic of this thread

 

Yes, there are other aspects in MA, that will be developed.

 

Yes, forcing a student to learn will not have them enjoy it.

 

Yes, I agree, students exposed to it do develop better morals and better ethics. They do not need a symbol, like the black belt to achieve this. McDojo schools "sell" the rank.

[47MartialMan]

TKD would be the most abused I would think, but locally there have been several other dojo's through here in past years including:

 

Montana Free Style -- black belts in a year!

 

Oki-Ryu -- Still in existence here. I've watched his class a number of times. VERY weak IMHO.

 

American Free Style -- not one, but TWO black belts in a year!

 

... and several I can't remember what they were called. Most don't last long once the word gets out that they are crap.

 

any links to these?

[Safroot]

I am in Sydney .. it's GKR GKR GKR !!

[cheesefrysamurai]

Yesterday it was taekwondo.

There are still good taekwondo schools out there from what I hear.

Today's flavor of mcdojo is MMA.

Instructors jumping on the bandwagon, taking some classes, getting moderatly proficient at groundwork, changing their logo and taking off their Gis.