The Martial Athlete vs. the Martial Artist

[SevenStar]

In the same way I choose to think that sports such as boxing are not martial arts. Yes the boxers are very skilled, highly trained, hard athletes and could hand me my butt in a bag, but IMO they are all Martial and no Art. The art comes stuff like the old traditions carrying on that do nothing to make one a better fighter but carry on nevertheless.

 

I thought that was interesting. Could it be one's perception of what art is? Watch to boxers (since that was the example you used) Compare the style of an in your face indside puncher like tyson, to an outside fighter, like lewis or kiltchko. Tyson wants to slip inside and attack relentlessly with hooks and uppercuts - foreman used to do the same thing. lewis and klitchko have a stiff jab and a pretty solid cross. They have a long reach and prefer to fight on the outside.

 

These fighters know the same techniques, but they fight so differently - is their expression of boxing not art?

 

In addition, what you learn as far as history and tradition will depend on the school you attend. In my muay thai class, we learn the history of the style, we wai (bow) and various other things in addition to the training and fighting. It's just not focused as much as it would be in a "traditional" school.

[AngelaG]

 

If I want kumite type sparring I can do it in my karate, and it's nice for control, distance, timing, speed, balance etc; but it's completely cr*p for self-defence.

 

If the karate school trained in a similar manner to your OCFM school, do you think it would be more effective? why or why not?

 

Right I think I am confusing the matter here by not putting exactly what I mean. First of all my karate school and my OCFM school are one and the same - exactly the same instructor, two different styles.

 

Secondly we have two different styles of sparring in the Shotokan, one is the kumite competition style sparring, light to mid contact and as I said good for a lot of things but not self defence. Then we have a different group of oyo exercises where one person attacks, full force and power, with hook punches and straight punches and we deal with the punch and then deal with the attacker.

 

Thirdly because of the fact my instructor for OCFM and karate are one and the same and everyone at the moment that does OCFM at my club also does the karate lessons it means he can adjust the lessons around us, he knows what are strong and weak points are etc.

[47MartialMan]

So why can't boxing be a martial art. Given the definition of each word in the term?

 

What is the definition of martial?

 

What is the definition of art?

 

And the current definition, in most dictionaries, martial arts are indigenous to Asian fighting systems-is this inaccurate?

[47MartialMan]

BTW Angela G

 

I did apologize as I wasnt not trying to mock.

[AngelaG]

So why can't boxing be a martial art. Given the definition of each word in the term?

 

What is the definition of martial?

 

What is the definition of art?

 

And the current definition, in most dictionaries, martial arts are indigenous to Asian fighting systems-is this inaccurate?

 

I can't really explain it because even to myself the definitions are blurry in my own head, it's a feeling rather than a substansive thing. This does not mean by the way that I think one system is more worthy than the other. Nor does it have any bearing on effectiveness etc.

[longarm25]

if i ever drop my fist to my hip when im throwing a punch i deserve to be hit in the face, and if my opponent is any good i will be. if it has to do with elbowing someone behind you while punching someone infront of you (the only justification ive ever heard for it), thats dreamworld fighting.

hikite has several bunkai none of which actually include dropping your guard. such as controling your opponents arm while pulling him into a counter tech

[longarm25]

if i ever drop my fist to my hip when im throwing a punch i deserve to be hit in the face, and if my opponent is any good i will be. if it has to do with elbowing someone behind you while punching someone infront of you (the only justification ive ever heard for it), thats dreamworld fighting.

hikite has several bunkai none of which actually include dropping your guard. such as controling your opponents arm while pulling him into a counter tech

see article by Smith Sensei at fighting arts

 

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=317

[judoguy]

Muay Thai is a traditionalo art, by the way.

 

that is correct, to an extent. muay has been around in some form for a LONG time, but the the current muay - muay thai - and it's gloved format ahs only been around since the 1920's making it modern.

 

MT is a traditional art but I think what our friend means is Karate or kung fu you know the usual sterotypes for what a TMA is.

[AngelaG]

Muay Thai is a traditionalo art, by the way.

 

that is correct, to an extent. muay has been around in some form for a LONG time, but the the current muay - muay thai - and it's gloved format ahs only been around since the 1920's making it modern.

 

MT is a traditional art but I think what our friend means is Karate or kung fu you know the usual sterotypes for what a TMA is.

 

In my mind it's not even as clear cut as that. For example I would not even consider all karate classes traditional. The boundaries are self imposed so it's hard to say, it's all just my own opinion. I am not trying to offend I am just being honest.

[SevenStar]

I agree. Not all karate is traditional. all of the "sport karate" "american shotokan" and the like, IMO is not traditional.

 

My point with muay thai was that even though muay is very old, muay thai has only been around for about 85 years.