The Martial Athlete vs. the Martial Artist

[47MartialMan]

But how can a Martial Athelete never be a martial artist? How can you make separate classfications?

[longarm25]

it's semantics but if the differance between artist and athlete is similar to the differance between Budo and Bujutsu(Jitsu)and karate do vs karate-jitus.

 

if you don't seek the deeper meaning ie...bunkai/ or other combat related application you are participating in a sport

[SevenStar]

incorrect.

 

koryu or classical is the term given to all japanese arts that were pre tokugawa. post tokugawa (or, actually I think post meiji) are considered as modern. the modern styles are do. the koryu styles are jutsu.

 

the jutsu styles have become synonymous with combat because they were used during eras of war.

 

In addition, you will learn bunkai in judo and in karate do...

[AngelaG]

However, there is a reason for pulling your other fist back to your side. It just might have something to do with grappling. It's been posted before, but I'll see if you can guess it...

 

Its a shame, Shorin Ryuu, that not many people know the application of hikite. Especially those who practise it without knowing what its for.

 

I think alot of us inderstand that. I know that the chamber can be a grabbing hand. know that some of the movements are supposed to be breaks, or can be breaks, i.e. a high block and techniques like the second technique in heian nidan. A shuto block can be a strike to the neck, etc...

 

BUT, as vito said, if you drop your hand like that, you deserve to get hit in the face. you should train the applications of the kata, but know how to integrate them without compromising your defense.

 

You are assuming that you are grabbing their arms or stun them. Think of it instead that I have grabbed someone's hair and I am now pulling their head back to hikite position as I simultaneously strike with the other hand (both hands work together). Anybody that can get a decent punch in from that position is a superman.

 

Or if you are grabbing an arm it is done after you have used something like Body Alarm Reaction to technique. In my organisation is is called "earning the right to land your technique".

 

When I saw Martial Athlete the first thing I thought was the competition light contact TKD type matches. Here's a story for you, my instructor had a friend who got very heavily into the competition type sparring. He would train for it on a daily basis and was very good at what he did - a very fast and nimble guy. One day he was stopped by a mugger on his way home, and the MAist went for a stomach shot, which he landed with perfect precision, semi-contact as he had diligently trained for every day!!. He even added in a fiercesome kiai for good measure. Luckily for this guy the mugger was so spooked by this insane guy that he ran off, but the situation could have been a lot different. I train TMA, and we train oyo alongside kumite, close up fighting where you do not take your strikes to full extension, there are no rules such as only stright strikes to hinder you as there are no rules on the street... Everything is a target from top to toe and we can use whatever we want as a weapon. We will do this on a partner semi contact, and then we also use punch bags to ensure we train in striking though the opponent.

 

I do shotokan. In the shotokan dojo down the road they do tippy tappy, no contact sparing only. Go figure - different instructors teach different things even within the same style!

[SevenStar]

when you pull the person, naturally they will resist and fight back. Where are your hands? While he's resisting, he can strike...

[AngelaG]

Where are my hands? Primarily shifting and parrying followed by immediate strikes to their body and/or head. After that they may be grabbing appendages etc. Obviously you do not grab a determined person and start trying to fight them in a tug-of-war, matching strength to strength. A good MAist should be able to fight someone regardless of size differences etc.

 

Anyway if you train properly you learn not to pull a person but in fact to redirect their power in the way you want it to go.

[SevenStar]

Where are my hands? Primarily shifting and parrying followed by immediate strikes to their body and/or head. After that they may be grabbing appendages etc.

 

No, I mean after your grab. One hand is on his head. Where is the other?

 

Obviously you do not grab a determined person and start trying to fight them in a tug-of-war, matching strength to strength. A good MAist should be able to fight someone regardless of size differences etc.

 

naturally, but once you grab me, I will resist. period.

 

Anyway if you train properly you learn not to pull a person but in fact to redirect their power in the way you want it to go.

 

I don't fully agree with that...however, I was responding to your comment "I have grabbed someone's hair and I am now pulling their head back to hikite position"

 

back to what I don't agree with - if you are fighting someone bigger and stronger, you may not be able to redirect them where YOU want them to go - size does matter. As you get better, you learn to let them redirect themselves... make them over commit in the direction that they are headed. you push, I pull. that way you are overcommitted to your forward motion. You pull, I push. Now, you are over committed to going backward - Judo's principle of maximum efficiency.

[47MartialMan]

SevenStar,

 

Not just a Judo concept....but great post/point

[AngelaG]

No, I mean after your grab. One hand is on his head. Where is the other?

Striking of course, what did you think? I was waving down a cab?

naturally, but once you grab me, I will resist. period.

I'd like to see how much you could resist once I have used Body Alarm Reaction on you! Not more than I could pull you.

I don't fully agree with that...

Your perogative - but it's still the truth of body mechanics and basic physics

back to what I don't agree with - if you are fighting someone bigger and stronger, you may not be able to redirect them where YOU want them to go - size does matter.

But I am not pulling a fully grown, fit male towards me, I am letting them go where they already decided they wanted to go but assisting them for my benefit. They have also been stunned by my lightning quick reactions and a strike to the head/neck.

As you get better, you learn to let them redirect themselves... make them over commit in the direction that they are headed. you push, I pull. that way you are overcommitted to your forward motion. You pull, I push. Now, you are over committed to going backward - Judo's principle of maximum efficiency.

Errr Wasn't that what I already put in my earlier post?

Anyway if you train properly you learn not to pull a person but in fact to redirect their power in the way you want it to go.

 

Right here in fact??

 

Regards

 

Angela

[SevenStar]

 

Striking of course, what did you think? I was waving down a cab?

 

right. So, now you have one hand on my hand, one hand out, and none guarding your face...

 

I'd like to see how much you could resist once I have used Body Alarm Reaction on you! Not more than I could pull you.

 

So, you intend on strking enough fear in me that I will basically lose control of my actions, allowing you do pretty much do what you want? um...no. Fighting full contact helps get people over that reaction.

 

 

Your perogative - but it's still the truth of body mechanics and basic physics

 

actually, physics is on my side

 

But I am not pulling a fully grown, fit male towards me, I am letting them go where they already decided they wanted to go but assisting them for my benefit. They have also been stunned by my lightning quick reactions and a strike to the head/neck.

 

then, you are not putting them where YOU want them to go, as you said. You are doing what I suggested - letting them go where they were already headed.

 

 

Errr Wasn't that what I already put in my earlier post?

 

no.

 

Anyway if you train properly you learn not to pull a person but in fact to redirect their power in the way you want it to go.

 

Right here in fact??

 

right there, you said "redirect their power in the way you want it to go" - not really the same thing... I may want to throw you on your head. But, if your energy is going backward, I am going to take you that way instead. They are going where they were already headed, not necessarily where you want them to go. I know what you were trying to say though.

 

Regards

 

Angela