The Martial Athlete vs. the Martial Artist

[Zaine]

...If you run out of room to block, there not going to have enough room to kick for one, and he is right boxing does have a lot of technigue to it, and control should come before strength, and strength is a thing you have to have, and in okinawan karate systems we do utilize body changes so that we can dodge attacks, its 50% instructor, and 50% fighter, no if, ands, or buts about it...

[elbows_and_knees]

From the way I c it , first is power then comes the control and then speed

Thats very dangerous for the fighter to do, control comes first in my book

the thing about learning contro first is that it takes longer. IME, when someone is taught cntrol first, when they do start sparring, they hold back - they are so used to control and no power that they can't do it. When they learn power first, you can teach them to tone it down.

if a person can kick high, he can always kick low. But, just because he can kick low, that doesn't mean he can also kick high. The same applies to hitting with power.

[elbows_and_knees]

From the way I c it , first is power then comes the control and then speed

I agree with Zaine.

1st comes control, then comes speed, then power.

Its better off learning correct technique then working on the power. In my opinion that is, im no expert.

there is a difference between technique and control. He didn't say teach them power instead of technique; he said power instead of control - there is a difference.

[elbows_and_knees]

Take okinawan arts who has good instructors that use the makiwara board. THats a good tool to develop the wrist and alot more harder surface to use to develop hitting power but still is gives enough flexibility as not to damange the hands like you would punching a brick wall.

Doing this training in moderation and slowly building up as to not damage the hands where you gain arthritis and can't use them in later years to the same degree is important. I think those martial artist who use that training properly punching power works for them better off then boxers who have to use hand wraps because as to not break there hand.

that's not what it is, actually. It's not a conditioning issue, but a numbers issue. When you are in a 12 round boxing match, you will throw hundreds of punches. most of those are to hard areas, like the skull (inadvertently) - by doing this, you have a MUCH greater chance of breaking your hand than someone who punches less and against non-resistance - like a makiwara. Also, from a power perspective, someone with the power of tyson is bound to break his hand eventually - even if he trained in a tma.

[Adonis]

Maybe I think this were we will agree to disagree. Because I believe you can learn from both TMA and Modern combative arts and mixed martial arts trianing.

people have applied spinning kicks and what not before in mma. I would agree they aren't fight finishers and most people don't do them if the opponent is fresh. Mostly when opponent is tired.

Either way there is a bit you can learn from both. JMO

[elbows_and_knees]

Maybe I think this were we will agree to disagree. Because I believe you can learn from both TMA and Modern combative arts and mixed martial arts trianing.

people have applied spinning kicks and what not before in mma. I would agree they aren't fight finishers and most people don't do them if the opponent is fresh. Mostly when opponent is tired.

Either way there is a bit you can learn from both. JMO

No, I actually agree with what you said here. Heck, I started in shotokan and in longfist. currently, I train capoeira with my muay thai and grappling.

I am disagreeing with what you said above about hand conditioning.

[ElbowTKO]

A Martial Artist is a lawyer... sue them, use the pen not the sword...

with martial arts you train the pen also...

[Adonis]

I see your point but I still stand by mine and the makiwara training. I seen good boxers with out the gloves and wrist wraps don't hit with well aligned punches because of the reliances on wrist wraps and what not.

Either way I see your point. Maybe I should have used more a clear cut n' dry example instead of that one.

[elbows_and_knees]

I see your point but I still stand by mine and the makiwara training. I seen good boxers with out the gloves and wrist wraps don't hit with well aligned punches because of the reliances on wrist wraps and what not.

I've seen a WC guy who trained iron palm do the same thing - he broke his hand. It's one of those things that can happen, regardless of conditioning.

[y2_sub]

From the way I c it , first is power then comes the control and then speed

I agree with Zaine.

1st comes control, then comes speed, then power.

Its better off learning correct technique then working on the power. In my opinion that is, im no expert.

Power as in power while performing techniques , not power as in brute force !!

If you are fighting to knock down your opponent , then power comes in the first place , if ur techniques lack power then you won't be able to knock down no matter how much control you have

I guess elbows_and_knees explained my point of view correctly , thx pal