The Martial Athlete vs. the Martial Artist

[Zaine]

Yeah it really depends on what type of karate they take, okinawan karate systems condition their bodies so that they are not hurt as bad, also its not all about strength, its 50% tecnigue, and 50% strength, so it all depends really

[y2_sub]

From the way I c it , first is power then comes the control and then speed

[elbows_and_knees]

This question really bothers me...in connection with this topic...can a modernday olypic gold medalist fencer defeat a swordsman, say from the age of Louis XIV?

it's very possible. he has access to evolved training methods and information, which will be an asset to him. Why does the topic bother you so badly?

[Zaine]

From the way I c it , first is power then comes the control and then speed

Thats very dangerous for the fighter to do, control comes first in my book

[Sengra]

This question really bothers me...in connection with this topic...can a modernday olypic gold medalist fencer defeat a swordsman, say from the age of Louis XIV?

it's very possible. he has access to evolved training methods and information, which will be an asset to him. Why does the topic bother you so badly?

well, i was just thinking if a 17th century soldier would challenge me in a duel, i could never win...i'm not an olympic fencer though, but i practice fencing...

[b3n]

From the way I c it , first is power then comes the control and then speed

I agree with Zaine.

1st comes control, then comes speed, then power.

Its better off learning correct technique then working on the power. In my opinion that is, im no expert.

[Adonis]

there things you can learn from both. Martial athelete is more sport oriented especially designed more for full contact sports MMA events, boxing, muay thai stuff like that. compared to point fighting. Because I can clasify olympic tkd practioners as martial atheletes because it takes alot of athleticsm to do those moves to jump spin 3 times in an air and land a kick on some one.

same goes with x-treme martial artist like mike chaterruanbut (sp?)

Any way there is things to learn from both TMA and contempary popular combat sport arts such as muay thai, boxing, wreslting, jiu-jitsu ect,ect,ect...

Take okinawan arts who has good instructors that use the makiwara board. THats a good tool to develop the wrist and alot more harder surface to use to develop hitting power but still is gives enough flexibility as not to damange the hands like you would punching a brick wall.

Doing this training in moderation and slowly building up as to not damage the hands where you gain arthritis and can't use them in later years to the same degree is important.

I think those martial artist who use that training properly punching power works for them better off then boxers who have to use hand wraps because as to not break there hand.

But I see alot of those okinawan/japenase karate arts that use makiwara training and other types use old methods of pulling the hand to the hip for all there punches and what not almost. Its fine if you use the thinking of application for grabing/breaking/unbalancing your opponent. But boxing guard is a good guard to use also that should be more implemented in the karate styles. Boxing uses more bobbing/slipping/weaving which is great conepts that TMA's should use. Some instructors teach it but not on great regular bases. So I don't see the students able to pull them off in there fights compared to how boxers able to use those concepts on a more regular bases.

Either way my point is there is ideas you can learn from TMA as well as modern comative and sport combative arts.

As to the argument of martial athelete in combat sport arts comapred to martial artist. If both started same time I think martial athelete would dominate more. Mostly becasue of combat sport arts focus more on simple techniques with more stratgey, foot work, and ability to apply quicker then a regular art would.

Mainly with more techniques involved in tma compared to combat sports where its on a few punches and kicks but focus is on the combinations to set up an opening to apply them the use of foot work, and angles, and body postioning. As to how they apply the moves.

There is also the mind set. people join the martial arts for several diffrent reasons, gain more confidence, to be in better shape, to enjoy a particular art, or to pretend one day they to can be like Bruce Lee or self defense. either way there is tons of reasons. But for martial atheletes in combat sports its usually geared towards competing and fighting and intensity of the work outs are geared towards that.

So in the short term I believe combat sports gets you more geared to take hits, and fight quicker then alot of TMA styles but then again that depends on an instructors personal teachings and methods of training. There are arts out there that train hard as well but don't necisarrly compete in competion.

Either way both are fun to learn and if you like what your doing do it. I Hate when people preach about how there training is better and every one else should do it also. It reminds me of relgious debates where some one feels there religion is better because of this or that and how every one should be apart of there religion or they will go to Hell! Yeah okay. People have diffrent goals as to why they started the martial arts. IF you like what your doing stay with it.

[Zaine]

Thats awesome, i agree with you 100%, i have said this time and time again on here and you explained in a way that i couldnt, it all depends on the fighter, and the instructor teaching the fighter, it doesnt matter how much you want to fight and how good you are, its the instructor that makes or breaks the student, you cant really blame a fighter for being bad without looking at the instructor first.

[Why_Worry]

Just one thing, karate25 said a lot of good things but martial artist do bob weave and stuff liek that or at least wher ei go but thats probably just cause its wado ryu which has alot more dodging. ALthough i know i dont do any of that stuff unless me and someone else are real close and throwing lots of kicks and punches where i run out of hands or legs to block with, otherwise it just takes too much energy unlike in boxing where the punches thrown are pure muscle so it wears the other person down more when they miss. Anyway, i dont really want to argue with everythign else said so jus tin my opinion control comes first then power because once you get power in your strieks and do it like its just one move to take out the oponent you can put in speed so you have the technique right and you can take them out right away. But you need to have the form down right too.

[Adonis]

there is in okinawa styles of karate called change body getting out fo the way of attack. Which is an idea prevelent in alot of martial arts. Just that some do them diffrent. Wado ryu people I Messed around with weren't that good at it. Glad to hear your gym is diffrent.

Boxing by the way isn't just pure strength there is a lot of technique those punches.

typically though thoe mostions of a boxer isn't employeed in alot of tradinational martial arts as part of the style.