Differences between TKD and TSD

[italian_guy]

What are they ?

[TangSooGuy]

this is really too hard to even get into, and would require a thorough post that I just don't have time to write up right now...maybe someone else will...

 

In my experience, though, it all depends on teh dojang. You could go to a TKD school and a TSD school and find that they are so similar you couldn't tell the difference...then go to another two schools and find that they are worlds apart rom the first two.

 

Speaking in ridiculously oversimplified generalities.....

 

TKD tends toward being more sport oriented, while TSD tends towards being more self-defense oriented, in my experience.

 

Many TKD systems have tried to eliminate anything Japanese or Okinawan in their systems, while TSD has not (or not to the same degree)...

 

Note that this is, as I said, a ridiculously simplified generalization, and can't be considered true in all cases...

 

There are outstanding self-defense oriented, traditional TKD schools, and there are watered-down, sport-oriented, "McDojo" TSD schools...

 

It all depends on the individual dojang and instructor.

[granmasterchen]

very well said tangsooguy...very well said....

[Rotten Head Fok]

I have no clue, So I'll keep checking back Tang SooGuy, from what you've said I understand.

[Flying Tiger]

I am currently taking Tang Soo Do, but I haven't taken Tae Kwan Do since I was like 5, so I don't remember anything from that (just so you know).

 

In my class we do a lot of one-step sparring, self-defense, and we also compete alot in tournaments. We spend a fair amount of time working on sport/tournament fighting. We also do ALOT of forms (hyung, I believe the term is, but I could be pulling that out of my *). We do a lot of high and combination kicks, but we also do some hand-work. Personally, however, I don't think we do enough work with our hands, and so I do a little boxing on the side, but that could be because of the instructor rather than the actual style. Hope I helped out a little

[gcav]

I have studied TKD and have taught TSD and I agree with TangSooGuy. The main difference between the two is the primary focus of the art. I say this with all due respect to the TKD guys out there, but TKD does tend to be more sports oriented than TSD. But then again, I did my TSD training in Korea which is a totally different animal than training here in the U.S.. TSD has all of the same kicks as TKD, but we focused more on hand techniques, throws and even ground fighting. IMO, I felt like TSD provided more "real world" training than TKD did.

[Mu Ryuk]

Well...here's what I can gather...note that I'm speaking about the majority of Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do Dojangs, not ALL of them.

 

Tradition: Tang Soo Do has part of it's basis in Tai Chi Chuan, while Tae Kwon Do tries to eliminate anything non-Korean from it's curriculum. I'm sure there's other things but I don't know enough about Tae Kwon Do to tell you what they are.

 

Physical: Different forms. Tang Soo Do tends to concentrate on all kicks equally, while Tae Kwon Do focuses heavily on the Roundhouse Kick, partially due to it's now sport oriented population. The Tae Kwon Do Roundhouse Kick tends to be thrown at a somewhat upward angle, while the Tang Soo Do Roundhouse is traditionally thrown from a flat 90 degree angle. Note that the Tae Kwon Do Roundhouse I speak of is the modern, sport oriented one. The tradtional Tae Kwon Do Roundhouse was the same as the Tang Soo Do one.

 

Sport: Aside from Tae Kwon Do being more sport oriented, there are different rules. There are so special rules for Tang Soo Do sparring, it's done by normal point sparring rules. Tae Kwon Do has it's own set of rules, which include not being allowed to strike the head with hand techniques.

 

If I was mistaken about anything, please feel free to correct me.

 

As it has been stated, it all comes down to the Dojang and the Instructor.

 

Hope this helped.

 

Tang Soo!

[italian_guy]

Thanks a lot folks!

 

Hey Karatekid1975 since you did both I was looking forward for your opinion

[Rotten Head Fok]

I'll thank you all too!

[RF_Brown]

Historically here is a very brief run down on the development of TSD and TKD.

 

For the record, Tang Soo Do means the same thing in Korean as what Karate-Do originally meant in Japanese, that is the "Way of the Chinese Hand," Tang referring of course to the Tang dynasty in China. Most all the early Kwans or schools in Korea at around the time of WWII called their art this name. When the Japanese masters due to nationalistic interest before WWII changed the way "Kara" was written to mean "empty" some of the Kwans in Korea began using the name Kong Soo Do to reflect this change. During the Japanese occupation of Korea before WWII, Korean martial arts were forbidden to the Korean populace, but not Japanese arts. At this time Japanese Karate was still basically Shuri-Te from Okinawa, as it had yet evolved into what is now known as Shotokan Karate, and this was what was being taught in the original kwans (or schools) of martial arts in post WWII Korea.

 

When the Korean Tae Kwon Do Association (originally the Korean Tae Soo Do Association) was formed in Korea, merging all the kwans together into one organization, Grandmaster Hwang Kee of the Moo Duk Kwan refused participation, and did not adopt the new name of Tae Kwon Do (The Way of Kicking and Punching), the name the KTA adopted at the suggestion of General Choi Hong Hi of the Oh Do Kwan, continuing instead to call his art Tang Soo Do, and therefore also did not adopt the new pattern set developed by Gen. Choi and Nam Tae Hi, the Chang Hon Pattern Set, but rather continued to teach Koreanized versions of Shuri-Te forms. For instance in Tang Soo Do, the Pyung Ahn hyungs are the same as the Pinan katas in Shuri-Te, etc... This has all been documented in many articles published in Black Belt Magazine, The Journal of Asian Martial Arts, and Tae Kwon Do Times.

 

Many of the Moo Duk Kwan instructors however did go with the KTA so that there was a split in the Moo Duk Kwan resulting in Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do and Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do. What is even more confusing is that many masters from the Moo Duk Kwan in the last couple of decades have formed their own organizations using the name Tang Soo Do, such as the World Tang Soo Do Association, the International Tang Soo Do Federation, etc...

 

As a result the Moo Duk Kwan under Grandmaster Hwang Kee adopted the name Soo Bahk Do to describe the art they practice, claiming that it is the name of an ancient Korean martial art that Hwang Kee supposedly learned at some point and mixed it with Northern style Kung Fu. However despite that claim, Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do is more or less a Korean adaptation of Shuri-Te Karate. Northern Kung Fu may well have influenced Hwang Kee however as that may have been the basis for some of the high kicks that found their way into the Korean martial arts. Northern Kung Fu features many jumps and high kicks. In addition Tang Soo Do as practiced by the Moo Duk Kwan is a little more fluid and less linear in its movements than many of its Tae Kwon Do cousins, and that may indicate some Kung Fu influence as well. It is interesting to note though that Hwang Kee was a student for a short while at the Chung Do Kwan before starting his own Moo Duk Kwan. Chuck Norris studied at the Moo Duk Kwan (Tang Soo Do) in Korea when he was stationed there in the military, earning his first black belt there. Norris' instructor at the Moo Duk Kwan was Jae C. Shin, now President & Grandmaster of the World Tang Soo Do Association.

 

Actually I really like Tang Soo Do, and if I was 20 years younger I might well choose it as the martial art of choice (having studied ITF Taekwon-Do many moons ago). Heck even considering it now at my old age (well I am 47) and out of shape condition.

 

In the 1960s General Choi formed the International Taekwon-Do Federation to foster the spread of Taekwon-Do around the world. After a good will trip by Choi and a demonstration team to North Korea in 1966 resulted in hard feelings among many in South Korea, Choi resigned from the KTA and relocated the ITF first to Canada and then in the 1980s, to Austria. The KTA, under the control of the South Korean government, meanwhile formed the World Taekwondo Federation which promoted Taekwondo as the national sport of South Korea and eventually was able to get it recognized as a sanctioned Olympic event. Choi passed away in June of 2003 and the ITF has since split into three rival factions. ITF Taekwon-Do is unique in that its techniques are practiced with a distinctive up and down movement known as the sine wave. ITF practitioners also utilize a sharp short exhale of breath through the mouth while executing this sine wave movement. General Choi was a Shotokan Black Belt and the Chang Hon Tuls he helped to develop were clearly derived from Shotokan katas and reflect that hard linear Japanese style.

 

Notice also that the WTF spells it, "Taekwondo", the ITF, "Taekwon-Do," while organizations independent of either usually spell it as "Tae Kwon Do". The ATA though, too prefers the spelling of "Taekwondo", as in the American Taekwondo Association.

 

Another noticeable distinctive difference is the terms that are used for their pre-arranged patterns or forms ( in Japanese, "katas"). Tang Soo Do practitioners and many independent Tae Kwon Do schools and organizations refer to them as "hyungs," the ITF calls them "tuls" and the WTF has "poomses."

 

For more detailed information see:

 

http://www.beckmartialarts.com/ctkdfaq.html

 

http://www.indiana.edu/~iutkd/history/tkdhist.html

 

http://www.indiana.edu/~iutkd/history/tkdhist2.html

 

http://www.budget.net/~dnolan/master.html

 

http://www.sos.mtu.edu/husky/tkdhist.htm

 

RFB