Just a fun hypothetical question

[italian_guy]

We have 6 levels before black in both the systems I study. 6 actual belts in karate (white,yellow,orange,green,blue,brown and then black) and 6 levels with one change of belt (white to blue) from the 5th to the 4th in Tai Chi Chuan.

 

I think the focal point here is how many exams before the black belt level one should have. The colored belt to show in the dojo have little importance to me. I think that one exam every 6 months to 1 year or so and 6 exams in total are about right. Focusing the preparation on the exams is important time to time but should not be too frequent.

[CapitalKarate]

i like the belt system, it works well for how i learn. why do you think there are grades in school? why not just all learn together? it just doesn't work well that way. though i would cut back on how many kyu's i have. in my dojo we have: white, yellow, yellow w/ stripe, orange, orange w/ stripe, blue, blue w/ stripe, green, green w/ stripe, green w/ two stripes, brown, brown w/ stripe, brown w/ two stripes, black. imo, i would have it: white, blue,green,brown,black.

[angelica d]

I just had a thought (ouch! ) -

 

You know people say that 'in the beginning' students only had one belt, which went black through years and years of training etc etc. Well, wouldn't their gi go black as well? Don't know why but this was bugging me.

 

IMHO the belt system is fine as it is. Students have short term goals to aim for, and as long as they are not being rushed through all the belts quickly, they have a chance to go into the techniques in more depth. At my dojo, the focus is not on reaching the next belt, the students are much more interested in learning and mastering techniques. If this was not the case, then maybe the system should be simplified.

 

One problem I can think of with the present system is, sometimes there are so many belts that there isn't much difference in standard between, say, a yellow belt and an orange belt, except the length of time theyve been training. And if, as is the case with some dojos, the students all grade every three months without fail, then it does seem a bit pointless. But if students have trained hard over a reasonable length of time, have shown considerable improvement since the last grading, and demonstrate a positive and motivated attitude, then I see no problem in awarding them a belt to acknowledge that achievement.

[Drunken Monkey]

...gonna pick at the wording of some things for a bit.

 

you might think it isn't important but i think it makes a difference.

 

the reward isn't the belt.

 

but that is how a lot of people see it.

 

the reward is that you get to learn more;

 

you get to know that you are at a certain standard,

 

which is why i'm not too keen on being more lenient towards kids, or having separate kid grades.

 

and because skill and ability isn't something you can measure,

 

i don't think any grading system actually works.

 

all it seems to do is confuse the matter.

[angelica d]

Yeah, I guess you're right. In a perfect world students would want a belt for 'right' reasons, as opposed to merely wanting a higher rank.

 

But, I can't help thinking that a lot of students would get disheartened if they didn't have small regular challenges. If there were just white and black belts, it would be very daunting to most people, am I right?

[Drunken Monkey]

....whoa...

 

i wasn't necessarily picking on you,

 

you just happen to be the latest person to put them words in that order.

 

the thing with two belts, black and white is taht their symbolism would be different.

 

in that case, there would only be those who can teach and those who can't.

 

or

 

those who are learning

 

and those who are training

 

(which is my prefered interpretation).

 

before you are at black belt you are learning

 

basics, stances, forms, structures etc etc.

 

at black belt you are training to use everything you have learnt

 

(or something similar....y'know what i mean...)

 

and there is always change

 

(you don't need a belt)

 

one day, you are shown something extra, something that others aren't being shown yet.

 

that is what you get for your hard work.

 

you get access to more things.

 

around you can see that there are some guys who are doing something else that you don't know.

 

THAT is your target, to be good enough to do what they do, not good enough to get a belt.

 

i agree, it is the focus.

 

people can see the belt but they can't see the knowledge/skill etc etc.

 

perhaps this is actually a case for more harder sparring.

 

that way students can actually judge their abilities against each other instead of looking at the colour of their belt.

[OldRookie]

Belt grade system is fine.........I agree with DM-you don't need a belt. It gives me a sense of accomplishment in that "I have been over that hill--now for the next one".......but---in sparring class we usually don't wear belts & try to compete as all the same...(but still take it easy on the lower ranks..).....{shy away from head contact while they are colored belts}.....

[WapCaplet]

After having read everyone's responses, I realized a few things I had taken for granted before. It's always a good thing when you can actually learn something from someone else, isn't it?

 

I always thought that the colored belts only served two purposes: 1) To generate revenue for the instructing organization and 2) to relieve the western world's constant need to compare themselves with everyone else and be able to say "I'm better than you!", not by knowledge, but by way of some token trophy.

 

A pretty cynical look at the belts, anyway. And while I still agree that those reasons remain valid, I realized that there are some other useful aspects to the ranking system.

 

A colored belt does provide an instructor with a good indication of the level of each of his or her students. This can be helpful when parring up students for kumite practice and what-not. However, one could argue that a good instructor would know the ability levels of all their students just from having taught them and wouldn't need a colored belt to indicate it. Then again, since martial arts have become so popular in the last 50 years, perhaps there are too many students to keep track of.

 

I have to admit that I often think about my brown belt and think back to when I was a "lowly" white or yellow belt and I feel pride. Is this a good thing? Maybe it isn't. I guess it depends what I do with that pride. If I flaunt it and use it as an excuse to say I am better than someone else, then I am in the wrong. However, if I look at the progress I have made in the last two years and use that as motivation to continue training hard, then it becomes my advantage.

 

As with anything, it's what you do with it that counts. And like most things, a true test of your character is what you do with the "negative" things that come your way. Someone who can turn any "negative" into their own advantage is a wise person.

 

Maybe I got a little philisophical there. Just letting my fingers type as the thoughts come to mind. Sorry for the rant.

 

Is the colored belt ranking system good or bad? Does it matter whether it's good or bad? Depends how you feel about it, and what you do with those feelings.

 

Ultimately we're all trying to get back to white belt anyway, aren't we? I can do another rant about that some other time...

 

Wap

[blitzcraig]

I feel belts are a goal to look forward too. I look for towards personal growth, but belts kinda egg me on a bit more, and it shows rank and skill

[steveb]

You know people say that 'in the beginning' students only had one belt, which went black through years and years of training etc etc. Well, wouldn't their gi go black as well? Don't know why but this was bugging me.

 

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think traditionally you were not supposed to wash your belt. The gi would (hopefully) be washed from time to time and remain white(ish).