The Street Fighter Excuse

[MMACHAMP]

i have to agree with muaythaiboxer on this one....i train to fight.

[GrrrArg]

To each their own I say.

I agree with ALOT of the comments posted here, even the ones that contradict each other

Personally I train to learn to defend myself if the need ever arises. Its payed off in small terms a couple of times already.

As to the question of its worth..well id say theres been two times ive used my training to avoid taking a slapping (i mean actually physically used it to hurt someone, theres been plenty of times ive had the sense to take a different road). So id say it been seven years well spent.

So, self defence is my primary motivation. But its not my only motivation. Even if my training hadnt come in useful it would still have worth it for the countless other benefits ive gained.

To me if your training in a MA for fitness as a primary reason, you may as well do Line Dancing rather than Kata. BUT that doesnt mean you should do line dancing or that karate is more worthwhile, or your not worthy if you only train for fitness etc: Thats bull.

Train for whatever reason you want to train for and let everyone else do the same.

[kenpo_fighter]

I thought the article was well written with your point made across very clearly. Some very good points made as well as interesting ones. I can , in a way, relate to a couple of your points from my own experiences.

"Why do I train?" I started studying Karate when I was about 8 yrs. in Japan. And quite honestly, I started for the same reason that every 8yr. old in the world would want to study, to learn to fight! Growing up in a miltary family & where Bruce Lee cinema & many alike was usually found on the family movie list, this only fueled my fighting ambitions. I did train for years on the possiblity that one day I may actually have to you my art to defend myself or my loved ones.

Now, as I train in the Kenpo & Aikido arts, my movtivation has drastically changed. I train now, not just to protect myself, but, i train to learn the arts themselves. The martial arts has become an outlet for me to express myself physically, mentally, & spiritually. And to uphold ancient traditions that has been passed through the generations.

But, I very much agree, if somebody just wants to learn to fight for the soul purpose of fighting, join the army. It kills me how these little gangster punks come off the street calling themselves a "solider". I'm like "O.M.G.!!" I usually end up telling them if they were a "real solider", they'd litterally be in the military. For that reason alone, I want to abandon all my principles and beliefs to use my arts in the "dark" way & beat them within an inch of lives for speaking such ignorance.

[Mr. Mike]

For that reason alone, I want to abandon all my principles and beliefs to use my arts in the "dark" way & beat them within an inch of lives for speaking such ignorance.

amen brother

[Kinson]

It's a byproduct of the training to become a warrior that you begin to develop mentally and spiritually- if you are self aware enough.

Martial arts is about fighting, killing, dying. The spirit we build stands on the balancing point of life and death, and comes to understand and respect both respectively.

[ranger1100ky]

No true warrior, trains to FIGHT...

A true warrior, trains in HOW to fight, so they don't HAVE to fight except in the defense of the most important things... life... freedom... the safety of others...

I'm a former Marine... I've also had the dubious 'pleasure' of fighting on the street...

Fighting is NEVER a 'good' thing...

Fight starts... 'someone' is gonna get hurt...

Lives WILL change... and chances are... they will NOT be changing for the better...

Going to jail, is not what I'd call a 'step UP' in life...

Neither is trying to sleep with the knowledge, that someone is dead, or handicapped, because of something you did...

Nor is having the sure knowledge... that the pain carried through life by others... is something YOU are responsible for helping to cultivate in them. (When you wipe someone out... just remember... their Mother is gonna have to live with that too... and that's a really high price to make HER pay if it's not absolutely necessary to save a life.)

These little gangsta punks that speak of martial art, as a means to 'kick butt'... make me sick.

I still maintain, the greatest martial art move in the world, is to open your hand and shake the hand of a new friend... ( rather than to close it and hit someone in the mouth and make an enemy.)

I train very hard to fight...

So I will know so well what fighting entails...

That I will find ways to AVERT even HAVING to fight, LONG BEFORE the 'fight' begins...

And so I will KNOW without thinking... when I 'must' fight to save my life, or the life of another person, and be CAPABLE of doing so without batting an eye.

THAT is the spirit of martial art... to learn to fight, so one can know how to avoid it if there's any POSSIBLE way... and so one can, if forced to... fight and win in order to save a life.

One cannot have martial art... if one rejects this very spirit...

If any wish to learn to 'fight'... I say join the Marines... and after they wear you out... they'll teach you how to be a warrior, rather than a fighter.

Warriors fight only as a final resort when all other means have failed or are totally impractical...

Fighters... are usually what warriors wind up disposing of, when it is time for the last resort of combat to be implemented.

[Charlie]

On several different martial arts forums/blogs I've read posts by Shotokan students who disparage, albeit politely, full-contact Karate styles. However, I have yet to find a full-contact Karate student posting disparaging comments about Shotokan. I wonder why?

Anyway, it appears to me that some Shotokan students don't understand that comparing Shotokan to full-contact styles is like the old apples to oranges comparison analogy. The two styles appear to me to exist for different purposes.

Shotokan's emphasis on the single, perfect "killing" technique, the numerous katas, and sparring for points instead of effectiveness of contact appear to be aimed at teaching refined and artistic Karate skills. That's fine because I think there's a tremendous amount that someone can learn and absorb from that style.

However, full-contact exists for a different reason, to defeat your adversary quickly and effectively. Any art to it is incidental. And to answer the original post of this chain, full-contact skills are valuable and valid.

Just a few weeks ago, a middle-aged man riding his bicycle here in DC on a bike path was attacked and strangled to death by a mentally deranged person. That's one of the kind of situations that I think many of us full-contact students train for. We don't want to go out like that. If all of our years of training saves us, or some other person, in one instance, from death or serious injury, then they were definitely worth it.

Full contact helps prepare us for real fights. We learn what it feels like for someone to push, hit, or kick us full force, so it doesn't faze us if it happens for real. We learn how much force we need to employ to stop our adversary and what that feels like to our fists, feet, knees, forearms, etc.

Perhaps ironically, having full-contact knowledge and experience makes it less likely that we'll have to use it in a real fight. I've already seen that an expression of quiet self-confidence and assuredness projects an aura of strength that often causes the potential attacker to back-down. This self-confidence and assuredness comes from countless hours in the dojo or gym that provide us with our confidence that we can take what might come our way and give it back more effectively.

I'll give you an example: I was riding on a city bus in another city on a business trip late one night last month and saw a rough-looking guy harrassing a woman on the bus. I told him to knock it off. When I turned away he punched me in the mouth (I know, I should have been more aware). I believe he was either trying to get me to run away or inciting me to fight back so I would get arrested (you know the saying-it's always the second guy or retaliator who gets in trouble). My experience with full-force sparring in the dojo helped me realize immediately that his punch was weak, that the guy didn't know how to fight, and was therefore not a threat that I really needed to worry about physically. I calmly turned towards him, looked him in the eye, and said, forcefully but not loudly, "Don't do that again." You could have "heard a pin drop" on the bus as the other passengers watched to see what would happen. I held my gaze on his eyes until he dropped his gaze after a couple of seconds and he sat quietly, looking down, for the rest of the ride.

[Menjo]

On several different martial arts forums/blogs I've read posts by Shotokan students who disparage, albeit politely, full-contact Karate styles. However, I have yet to find a full-contact Karate student posting disparaging comments about Shotokan. I wonder why?

Anyway, it appears to me that some Shotokan students don't understand that comparing Shotokan to full-contact styles is like the old apples to oranges comparison analogy. The two styles appear to me to exist for different purposes.

Shotokan's emphasis on the single, perfect "killing" technique, the numerous katas, and sparring for points instead of effectiveness of contact appear to be aimed at teaching refined and artistic Karate skills. That's fine because I think there's a tremendous amount that someone can learn and absorb from that style.

However, full-contact exists for a different reason, to defeat your adversary quickly and effectively. Any art to it is incidental. And to answer the original post of this chain, full-contact skills are valuable and valid.

Just a few weeks ago, a middle-aged man riding his bicycle here in DC on a bike path was attacked and strangled to death by a mentally deranged person. That's one of the kind of situations that I think many of us full-contact students train for. We don't want to go out like that. If all of our years of training saves us, or some other person, in one instance, from death or serious injury, then they were definitely worth it.

Full contact helps prepare us for real fights. We learn what it feels like for someone to push, hit, or kick us full force, so it doesn't faze us if it happens for real. We learn how much force we need to employ to stop our adversary and what that feels like to our fists, feet, knees, forearms, etc.

Perhaps ironically, having full-contact knowledge and experience makes it less likely that we'll have to use it in a real fight. I've already seen that an expression of quiet self-confidence and assuredness projects an aura of strength that often causes the potential attacker to back-down. This self-confidence and assuredness comes from countless hours in the dojo or gym that provide us with our confidence that we can take what might come our way and give it back more effectively.

I'll give you an example: I was riding on a city bus in another city on a business trip late one night last month and saw a rough-looking guy harrassing a woman on the bus. I told him to knock it off. When I turned away he punched me in the mouth (I know, I should have been more aware). I believe he was either trying to get me to run away or inciting me to fight back so I would get arrested (you know the saying-it's always the second guy or retaliator who gets in trouble). My experience with full-force sparring in the dojo helped me realize immediately that his punch was weak, that the guy didn't know how to fight, and was therefore not a threat that I really needed to worry about physically. I calmly turned towards him, looked him in the eye, and said, forcefully but not loudly, "Don't do that again." You could have "heard a pin drop" on the bus as the other passengers watched to see what would happen. I held my gaze on his eyes until he dropped his gaze after a couple of seconds and he sat quietly, looking down, for the rest of the ride.

I think you have been vastly mismformed of true shotokan training. THe whole way of thinking is not one perfect kill shot however it would be nice to be able to do that but that is not what it is based on for sure. Full contact training defitnaly is a great assest but it has stopped me from downing 5-7 street fighters using shotokan, but i do agree with most of your post though...

[Menjo]

On several different martial arts forums/blogs I've read posts by Shotokan students who disparage, albeit politely, full-contact Karate styles. However, I have yet to find a full-contact Karate student posting disparaging comments about Shotokan. I wonder why?

Anyway, it appears to me that some Shotokan students don't understand that comparing Shotokan to full-contact styles is like the old apples to oranges comparison analogy. The two styles appear to me to exist for different purposes.

Shotokan's emphasis on the single, perfect "killing" technique, the numerous katas, and sparring for points instead of effectiveness of contact appear to be aimed at teaching refined and artistic Karate skills. That's fine because I think there's a tremendous amount that someone can learn and absorb from that style.

However, full-contact exists for a different reason, to defeat your adversary quickly and effectively. Any art to it is incidental. And to answer the original post of this chain, full-contact skills are valuable and valid.

Just a few weeks ago, a middle-aged man riding his bicycle here in DC on a bike path was attacked and strangled to death by a mentally deranged person. That's one of the kind of situations that I think many of us full-contact students train for. We don't want to go out like that. If all of our years of training saves us, or some other person, in one instance, from death or serious injury, then they were definitely worth it.

Full contact helps prepare us for real fights. We learn what it feels like for someone to push, hit, or kick us full force, so it doesn't faze us if it happens for real. We learn how much force we need to employ to stop our adversary and what that feels like to our fists, feet, knees, forearms, etc.

Perhaps ironically, having full-contact knowledge and experience makes it less likely that we'll have to use it in a real fight. I've already seen that an expression of quiet self-confidence and assuredness projects an aura of strength that often causes the potential attacker to back-down. This self-confidence and assuredness comes from countless hours in the dojo or gym that provide us with our confidence that we can take what might come our way and give it back more effectively.

I'll give you an example: I was riding on a city bus in another city on a business trip late one night last month and saw a rough-looking guy harrassing a woman on the bus. I told him to knock it off. When I turned away he punched me in the mouth (I know, I should have been more aware). I believe he was either trying to get me to run away or inciting me to fight back so I would get arrested (you know the saying-it's always the second guy or retaliator who gets in trouble). My experience with full-force sparring in the dojo helped me realize immediately that his punch was weak, that the guy didn't know how to fight, and was therefore not a threat that I really needed to worry about physically. I calmly turned towards him, looked him in the eye, and said, forcefully but not loudly, "Don't do that again." You could have "heard a pin drop" on the bus as the other passengers watched to see what would happen. I held my gaze on his eyes until he dropped his gaze after a couple of seconds and he sat quietly, looking down, for the rest of the ride.

I think you have been vastly mismformed of true shotokan training. THe whole way of thinking is not one perfect kill shot however it would be nice to be able to do that but that is not what it is based on for sure. Full contact training defitnaly is a great assest but not having full contact training hasnt stopped me from downing 5-7 street fighters using shotokan, but i do agree with most of your post though...

[Menjo]

the post above was supposed to be an edited version orf the previous one...