Opinions please

[Mart]

what follows arent my words but that of someone on a nother site, they closely resemble my expereince, i wonder if anyojne else can relate to it.

 

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Here I was working out five or six days a week doing conditioning, stretching, basics, kata, semi-contact sparring, weapons and learning Japanese culture and terminology. My strikes in the air seemed powerful. I could yell with force and loudness. I could hit and kick the heavy bag with force. I could break boards with my hands, feet, elbows, and head. I could beat up my classmates in sparring and even bring home trophies once in awhile. I was learning some Judo, Jiu Jitsu...rolling and jumping. My body was getting stronger. My hands, shins, and feet were tough...I knew how to use the nunchuku, sai, and bo. I had to know hundreds of one step sparring and self defense techniques to pass my tests. My form was perfect.

 

I knew things the average person didn't know. I knew how to take out somebody's eyes, break joints, crack ribs, smash windpipes, lock joints, and kill. I knew how to control myself. I knew how to stop punches when I wanted to but I also knew when to let loose and break wood or knock someone out. I never knocked anyone out...I was taught to be careful for my opponent. I was heir to deadly secrets that were only to be used with precaution.

 

Boxers did not scare me. That was just a sport. They wore gloves. I'd gouge out their eyes. A wrestler could not come near me, I would snap his knee or gouge his eyes---he would never be able to take me down before I'd strike him. Judo, it was okay but even that was just a sport. Kung fu had a serious mystique but no around here knew that art. If weapons were involved, I would surrender.

 

My friends and family fell for the mystique as well. Watch out, he knows Karate...Hahhh!! Most people didn't bother me becuase of that. Some would talk...but very few would step up.

 

I even got in fights...I won most by flailing away (forgot my form) but that reverse punch to the jaw saved me many times. Too bad it may have ruined my hand. A lot of fights ended up with us rolling on the ground swinging wildly....but it wasn't Karate that failed me. I just did not strike early enough...there was still no need to learn to wrestle.

 

Everything I was doing had me convinced that I was on my way to being invincible. If I just trained hard, kept believing in myself and my Karate, I would be fine. Look at my instructors...look at their instructors from Japan. They were all tough. They knew techniques and forms and could break wood and brick. Tradition. History. Like them...I was forging myself into the ultimate weapon.

 

Now given all this....why would I have wanted to change anything?

 

Eventually I left that Karate world (my family moved numerous times) and later entered the world of Sport Karate or actually a modernized form of Tae Kwon Do. My previous training paid off well at first and now that we were doing more upright stances and less traditional forms...I felt at times some sense of betrayal to the old ways and a sense of freedom in some other ways. I was still a fighter though, a 'natural' my instructor called me. In free (point) sparring, I was almost unstoppable. Tournaments, trophies, hours and hundreds of hours of sparring, aceing belt exams, more board breaking and self defense demonstrations, a certified bad *.

 

My body fat was low, my muscles were ripped, my endurance high, flexibility fantastic,.... I was peaking and combined with my previous knowledge and ability from the old world...I was deadly.

 

There were warning signs all around me though. My close friend got into it at a frat party and threw a front leg round kick at a guy...the kick bounced off his head and he came charging in. My friend got stomped by three people....I got dragged away and thrown out by two. The problem...he didn't kick hard enough of course. Or his knee didn't go through the target..?

 

When I would get into fights..my hands would shake uncontrollably and I would not be able to speak. How come I could dance in the point fighting ring and play... yet on the street...I would lose it, why?

 

Hints, glimpses...of wrestlers taunting me..."you've never fought a wrestler have you"...Judo guys telling us that we need to add throws and trips to our repertoire..."can you shoot a gun"...."ever had a knife pulled on you"..."stories of karate guys getting eaten alive by lowly 'street fighters'...competitors that never did forms but dominated the fighting divisions...and Full Contact Fighters. (But that was just a sport too, right?

 

One of my instructors had had enough. He was a full contact kickboxer who loathed point sparring. I didn't particularly like him that much so he said he wanted to fight me and I could hit as hard as I wanted...He set up a time and we went at it with foam gear and boxing training gloves.

 

We squared off, I in a point sparring side stance, he in a boxing stance...I leaped in with my patented low/high double round kick and popped him right in the head....kiai, Point Blank! As I was celebrating in my head, my instructor proceeded to take my head off with a flurry of jabs, straights, hooks, and more straights. I kept throwing my reverse punch, I think it hit but all I remember after that is standing there with my instructor holding me up...I guess after the lights I saw I went out on my feet...

 

My eyes were stinging red that night...head battered...lip had been busted. My instructor had offered to stop but I wanted to keep going get one more shot in. That one kill that would stop him...it never worked.

 

I felt humiliated. I felt that if I could have eye gouged him or if we weren't wearing gloves I would have done better. I felt like a loser...a fool. Here I was a champion tournament fighter, a black belt, a karate brown and I had just gotten my * beat like child. I had been tired in the ring. I couldn't keep punching...I couldn't lift my legs to kick. I could barely get up each time after getting knocked down again and again.

 

I started to realize that maybe I didn't know how to fight. He didn't do forms. I knew forms, sparring, could break boards, how did I fail? The ring fight certainly felt more like the real fights I had gotten into...I guess I had been lucky all this time. Perhaps he was right...perhaps nothing I had done before in my training had helped at all. Perhaps some of it had...

 

Over time, through fights and hundreds of hours of sparring, I learned that I really did not know how to hit. I did not know what getting hit meant. I had no timing. My point sparring techniques were useless. winning trophies...Breaking boards did not matter. All that punching and kicking in the air didn't matter. All that Japanese and Korean terminology didn't matter. Belts did not matter. Bowing and good kata did not matter. It seemed as if it had nothing to do with real fighting. Getting my head knocked in over and over was the beginning of my transformation. The reality of fighting was revealed to me in the kickboxing ring. Fighting is brutal. It is not choreographed. It hurts. Its unpredictable. "There is nothing in the forms or in the point fighting that will convey that reality to you. Only fighting realistically will."

 

I am thankful I made it through all those years of drinking and clubbing and even scrapping without getting seriously hurt. I'm glad I learned my lesson in the ring and not on the skr33t. I still feel like a beginner but I believe I truly know how to fight now. I even believe that every thing I did learn and train helped get me to where I am now. I think there were always pieces of the truth out there...the fun is putting the puzzle together and learning in the process.

 

And to think at one time...I was invincible. Or so I thought...

 

Not so dramatic actually, but I can still only offer to everyone, whether sport or street is that you should try realistic sparring at some time in your journey. It will open your eyes. It will help you grow. It might save your life. And you will be a much better fighter.

[White Warlock]

It is a good write. Please give attribution (the name of the poster).

 

His was not my path. I don't believe i ever deluded myself into thinking i was a badass. Even after all these years, i still do not think i'm a badass. Every day i look at what i know, and what i've learned, and i see that i can lose a confrontation against an untrained fighter... if my spirit is not willing, my actions faltering, and my motives dishonorable.

[renketsu]

It all depends on what you want from karate... I have never wanted to be a good street fighter, a badass, feared etc... I have never been in a real fight even though I have had opportunity to...

 

I would sooner walk away and not end up in court (or worse).

 

You hear stories about karateka (among other MAs) being imprisoned for ABH/GBH etc when defending themselves, not something I want

 

Kickboxing or MT (as far as I know) etc does not provide you with the ability to dodge bullets or deal with someone who pulls a knife on you... which seems to be strong possibilities now-a-days if your opponent doesnt take being beaten lightly.

 

Andy.

[Mart]

youre both quite right, i have never considered myself to be badass, as he puts it either, but nevertheless did think what i was learning was going to make me a good fighter while i neglected the other aspects that are involved too.

 

I will and try and find the authors name

[muaythaifreak]

"Kickboxing or MT (as far as I know) etc does not provide you with the ability to dodge bullets or deal with someone who pulls a knife on you... which seems to be strong possibilities now-a-days if your opponent doesnt take being beaten lightly."

 

Sport Muay Thai does not that's true, however sport Muay Thai is not exactly what ancient Thai warriors used against the Burmese on the battlefields. Traditional Muay Thai involves many other aspects of MA including weapons, throws, and grappling. Unfortunately, it is all but a lost art and teachers of it are hard to find. And even if you find them, most will not teach falang. Krabi-Krabong for instance is a primarily weapons based form of Muay Thai. I have been dying to learn it for years, but instructors are as scarce as hen's teeth. Memai Muay Thai is another. Keep in mind, the Muay Thai you see so much of today is what thailand has evolved into it's national pasttime. It is not in and of it self the defining example of Thai MA.

 

Additionally, people only dodge bullets in the Matrix. Don't kid yourself, no martial art is going to make you capable of that. The laws of probability and physics are against you almost 100% on that one.

Edited June 2, 2004 by muaythaifreak

[italian_guy]

The problem behind many discussion in this forum and behind this article is always the same.

 

Why do you take MA?

 

The answer to this question should address anyone's choice in their martial art journey.

 

If your main drive in taking MA is for learning how to fight in actual self defence situation and there are good possibilities you are going to use this ability (I'm talking about self defence professionals like policeman, prison guards, bouncers, body guards etc.) you should take martial arts that have maximum combat efficiency, Muay Thai, Kickboxing (including also San da), JKD, Krav Maga are good examples of that. All the bouncers and some policemen I know, practice kickboxing and practice full contact sparring.(the other arts I mentioned are not so popular here in Italy).

 

If you take MA as personal enhancement (as a art or just as an healty hobby), you better take some of the TMAs; because I think that TMAs are more enjoyable and even more healty (less injuries). Self defence in TMAs should be viewed as an extra bonus, let's say, doing TMAs you certanly improve your self defence capability, but this may or may not be adeguate to an actual self defence situation.

 

So I'm not surprised that a person with TMA training and point sparring practice came out badly in a full contact bout with an actual full contact fighter.

 

I made my choice to be a MA practitioner were self-defence is not my main drive but this is my personal choice.

[Mart]

Are you trying to say MT isnt a tradintional MA cos if so think again. Goes back further than most systems and has a whole lot more ceremony etc as well.

[italian_guy]

Are you trying to say MT isnt a tradintional MA cos if so think again. Goes back further than most systems and has a whole lot more ceremony etc as well.

No, I know MT is a traditional martial art and maybe I misuse the term TMA because of this exception, anyway I listed MT between the combat effective arts.

[TangSooGuy]

Well I hate to argue the point, because it's true that taking martial arts won't automatically make you a good fighter. You have to have the drive and ambition to actually learn how to fight. Part of the problem does lie in the instruction as well, but not in the art itself per se.

 

For every true story of an experienced karateka being taken down by a wrestler or a street fighter, there is another true story of a wrestler or street fighter being taken down by a karateka, they just don't get the same level of "press".

 

I know personally of an experienced wrestler who thought he had the upper hand on a traditional martial artist because of his ground fighting abilities. When he shot in to take the martial artist to the ground, he was met with a front kick to the face, followed up by an axe kick to the back, and when his head bounced off the ground, he was met with another front kick to the face. So, kicking can be effective, not that I'm suggesting it's the only way or even the best way to handle every situation.

 

In another situation, the same wrestler might have taken a traditional martial artist to the ground and had him locked up or might begin pummeling him.

 

I think it just comes down to the situation, and the level of understanding of the parties involved.

Edited June 2, 2004 by TangSooGuy

[White Warlock]

Agree with TSG