Scorcho Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 Depends from what position. There are innumerable takedowns, with many complicated names, but they all work of the same principles, just from different positions. Dispite what many people say, I think that you can pull Nage (throws) like an Ogoshi (especially the way BJJ guys practice it) off on the street. "The true master avoids the fight."Shodan - Uechi-Ryu KarateBrown Belt - Zen Budo Ryu JJ, Yoshinkan Aikido
SevenStar Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 Yeah you're right about the leg being in range, but if you have good movement there's hardly any weight on the leading leg and can moved in an instant, but that also depends upon distancing. Really the if you see the way we are being taught to move, you'd be very surprised how fast you can react to stuff. It's pretty amazing. and then when you step back, I attack the leg that now has your weight on it... the what if thing can go on forever... However, I would love to see you step offline successfully against a good double leg. I've seen nobody do it to date, so seeing it would be great.
SevenStar Posted December 10, 2003 Posted December 10, 2003 Dispite what many people say, I think that you can pull Nage (throws) like an Ogoshi (especially the way BJJ guys practice it) off on the street. against an untrained opponent, I can see a traditional o goshi working. Against trained judoka and other grapplers, it's hard to get a traditional o soto gari and o goshi effectively. The key there is the set up and the angle. You can't atack straight ahead and expect a good result most of the time.
Treebranch Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 Yeah well there are many things you can do with your hands as you move on the 45. The person is already sacrificing their balance for you, just let them go where they want to. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
SevenStar Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 see, there we go - that's a bad takedown. you are not sacrificing your balance at all on a double leg. you don't lean forward, you squat down - lower your center. the textbook wrestling way will have your knee touch the ground... you're not giving up your balance.
Treebranch Posted December 11, 2003 Posted December 11, 2003 So I can drop to one knee and elbow you in the face or throw you towards your balance point. If your right knee is down I throw you to the left, if your left knee is down I throw you to the right. Try it. Don't just discount this as babble. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
JohnnyS Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 TreeBranch, Are you suggesting moving off on a 45 degree angle and backwards? That might be fine, but how can you attack? You can't put any power into a strike if you are moving backwards - at least not enough to KO someone. To KO or even damage someone you need the weight on the front foot. As soon as you do this you are vulnerable to a shoot. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
Treebranch Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 Yeah you can when you are moving back on the 45 you are wound up so that when you untwist you can let a good strike out. So basically as you step back to the 45 to the right your upper body is twisting because you are leading the movement with the elbow. Kind of like your arms positioned to guard your face. This a very common strike in our art that is surprising very powerful. It's like the back fist from hell. It's also messes you up because it looks like we are retreating and that's when you will get popped. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
SevenStar Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 you're wound before you step back? that means you'd be in an awkward position yourself before I attempted the double leg...
SevenStar Posted December 12, 2003 Posted December 12, 2003 So I can drop to one knee and elbow you in the face or throw you towards your balance point. If your right knee is down I throw you to the left, if your left knee is down I throw you to the right. Try it. Don't just discount this as babble. if you drop one knee, you killed your mobility. as for the double legger who may drop to his knee, if he does, he's still got his forward momentum and his other leg is dragging up behind him.
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