JerryLove

Agreed... there are some excellent hits right there though. Ignoring arguing medical symantics, the right hit will "rattle your cage" and may cause unconsiousness/death.

I'm sorry, it's still not a very clear question. Do you mean arts which focus on no-contact hits? Or ones that focus on qigong? Or arts that focus on energetic hits? There's no clear "most", as the question is nebulious. The obvious big Chi martial arts are the Neijia (internal Chinese arts) of Taiji, Bagua, and Xingyi.

Both actually. Applying a poor technique is not useful, not is a good technique that you cannot apply. A combination of PC mumbo-jumbo and wishful thinking I'm afraid As illustrated where?

I forget sometimes the audience to whom I speak. I'm 31. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I put it to use. I avoid fights at almost all costs. If a fight occurs, every effort was taken to make sure it would not, and I presume my opponent is armed and wants to kill me. You and I are coming from very differnt perspectives. They do a tremendous amout of damage, but lack good, external, indicators... that was part of my point. Here, battery is defined as "intentional and unwanted physical contact". This doesn't make bumping into someone squeezing into an elevator "battery", but it does mean that it makes no difference how hard you hit. I disagree *very* heavily with the idea of reciprical force... It's like saying that if you go to war with a smaller country, you should use less and older gear. I don't know how much force someone else has, or is willing to use... and I don't want to find out. That's very easy to do to a "voulenteer", but very difficult against a determined attacker. I am reclicant to teach either pressure-point or energy work via posts on a discussion board... too accidentally dangerous for all involved. If you are really looking for non-leathal methods that you can learn remotely; I'd tend to push you toward a grappling art (Aki-jitsu and it's various off-shoot arts). That said, if you ever find yourself in FL, feel free to let me know... I'll buy you lunch and we can talk about energy and pressure and arts and such .

You'll have to be more specific. Many martial arts use Chi.

If someone resists a grapple, then change the grapple. Once you lock in, simply resisting isn't effective because of a loss of leverage.

Ever wonder why we don't shave with glass? Cause it doesn't have the properties you ascribe to it.

There are weapons, such as the 9-section-chain which resemble the weapon in 'chain' mode; and there are, of course, swords. There are no weapons which are both in the manner shown; hence why the transition was CGI.

In point sparring, open with an attack (a spinning mule kick works well considering most point sparring arts). That way MFers that like to just charge in early get caught

And yet it isn't useful because it fails to interact with the sub-topic "weather 'doing this' is a good idea"; and it isn't useful because it cannot be put to use "armed with this information, I can now...." Further, it's not true in a properly general sense. Yes, to think "I will do A-B-C-D" in a very specific manner is wrong... but to not have a strategy is silly. If you look at the way I responded to the "scenerio" presented in the bar, you may notice I list no specific techniques. I do, however, talk about general levels of interaction, general tactics, general position, and basic things like "when to start fighting"... These, indeed, are the topic at had (at least the one I'm discussing). Further, there is a good chance that an individual will attempt to do something he's practiced doing... so I disadvise the "put your hand on them, close to helbow range, then elbow them in the jaw" both because its tactically unsound and because its legally unsound.

Yes, the "recipricoral force" concept... It's horrible, but common. I don't think anyone has argued against that. Some of us have argued against specific scenerios as being ill advised. But this statement is entirely non-useful isn't it? Which I covered in the next sentance (which you omitted) where I said: I have been assuming that Cymry was crossing the distance into his opponent's space, and then throwing the first punch. I don't consider this martially sound (as he's exposed himself to being hit with little reacourse in order to get that close) nor legally appropriate (he is initiating the fight). You are not interacting at all with the actual post here "If dolphins are so smart, how come they live in igloos". Cool, where are you at, I've got some energetic hits I need to come practice.

Jing means "expression". You already have it, the question is can you learn specific jings?

They tend to get a reaction out of all but the most hardened psycopath. Doesn't seem nearly as good as beaning them glass-and-all I disagree. thought they *can* be used that way.

The "fa" or "explosive" jing is one type of energetic expression; but is not neccessairily internal, and will not neccessairily do internal damage. Further, there are many internal Iron Palm and Iron body execrises. But the question is like saying "I heard TKDists can kick you inthe head".

I never said it did. "Works vs one person" does not equate to "works". That's a means, not an end. Martial arts teach you to survive encounters. That's a different complaint than the one offered. And I've watched similar happen in real fights. You need to be able to deal with that tactic regardless. Now, if your argument is that "he charged in swinging, and would have been taken down but for the pads", that's a different discussion. And you think that without the padding (IOW in a fight) this would fail how?

Rule 1: If it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. If winmilling is a bad strategy in a figt (it is) then full contact sparring is the best way to find that out. Trying to beat through defenses and taking a pounding for your trouble seems like a good way to learn. And full contact fails to do that how? We are trying to learn to fight, yes? If we can't do it against someone charging in, then we can't do it at all.

Definately... though since I can't bring the bar to them, I was not listing it. You also have tables, partitions, jukeboxes, walls and a floor.

Gotta start with the obious... knives and forks. bar stool / chair - just pick it up and fling it. baby - same thing. plates, particularly china plates - blunt but rigid, sharp when broken people... not a easy to move around as babies, but not bad either. Decorations (pictuers for example) Condiment bottles (particularly glass ones) Cash registers (if they come up) hrm.. dunno, would have to be sitting in one to tell. I like improvised weapons.

hrm.. sorry if this comes out at nit-picking... I'm really just adjusting the scenerio. You are at a bar with some friends. You get up to go to the bathroom and turn around knocking into the guy (unintentionally) and spilling his beer. meaning I already failed to be observant of my surroundings, a bad martial trait You apologise and offer to pay for another one. my hands are already up in a freindly manner, I'm already moving, I'm already putting my back to my friends He just gets mad. He starts yelling at you. I make space, preferrably subtlely, but already with "back up" language if I need to. I'm trying for my best tactical position (I'd like wall behind me and my friends behind him) and I'm serreptitiously locating my weapon and look for an exit You try to calm him down. He grabs your shirt The fight started the moment he reached for it, we are engaged, me screaming "back off, get away". unless I'm really confident he's an idiot I'm either trying to kill him or break something and run Sure, except that to my thinking, you've repeatedly failed to act to control the situation. You had notice the grab was coming (he got belligerant) and you didn't act on that, and you didn't even act when the grab came (possably partailly because you didn't really get ready too before then).

Cymry does not (as I recall) make it clear weather the you and your opponent are at elbow range because he's walked up to you, or you to him. Because putting your hand on an approaching opponent's chest will usually either stop him at punching range, or start the swinging; I have been assuming that Cymry was crossing the distance into his opponent's space, and then throwing the first punch. I don't consider this martially sound (as he's exposed himself to being hit with little reacourse in order to get that close) nor legally appropriate (he is initiating the fight). The lawys vary heavily by location. If you are the person who advanced into foghting-space, then you failed to retreat. If you threw the first attack (especially after being the person who advanced into theother's space), then you'd better be able to convince quite a few people that you had no other viable choice... The problem isn't weather you said the words, but weather you appeared to start the fight. I'm guessing you can't walk up to someone at random, say "I don't want to fight", and then slug them across the jaw and expect the "I tried to diffuse the situation" argument to be valid. So I can walik up to you in your juristiction and just hit you and unless I hurt you in a remarkable way, I've not committed any infraction of the law? I find that difficult to believe.

How about starting outside of range, putting your hands up in front of you and shouting "stop", "stay back", "get away" while doing what you can do to make space between you and leave. If he crosses the distance into your range (how many people just heard and watched you insist he stay back?) then you are reasonable in defending your personal space from incursion (in many juristications). A definate "maybe"

4. The hit does nothing but make him come after you. You've paused to assess which of the above 3 situations is correct and have now lost initiative, against a pissed attacker, and at elbow range. Possibly, he beats the **** out of you, and then presess chages and sues for willful battery (you did hit him first, after all.

Because that's a drill.. it's not really sparring.

Copying from myself: Light Contact: Light contact sparring is where one spars at full speed but "pulls the punch", that is to say that control is exercised to avoid putting force into the target. This is pretty common in Japanese arts. Advantages include: The ability to use a wide array of techniques in practice without injuring your partner. The ability to move at speed and react to someone moving at speed. Disadvantages include: The limiting of many techniques which cannot, by nature, be pulled. A limit on what and how much resistance an opponent can offer. The lack of an understanding of hitting and being hit. The training of the bad habit "pull the punch" (commiting the wrong actions to muscle memory" Limited Rules Common in the grapplig arts, this strategy allows opponents to go at near-full speed and with power by severely limiting dangerous techniques and relying on a level of control to "stop" when injury is about to occur. Advantages include: The ability to work at near combat levels with resisting opponents. A gravity dynamic (IE how hard it is to stay up or escape) very true-to life. A realistic sense of trying to apply something to someone who doesn't want it applied. The ability to fight in realistic attire. Disadvantages include: The restriction of certain techniques (anything from fish-hooks to knee kicks). The neccessairy de-emphasis of other common techniques (striking). The likely reliance on some level of padding (I've yet to see this done on standard hardwood or concrete floors) Pad up and go In this strategy, the combatitants attempt to armor their more vunerable areas to allow a higher level of striking. Otherwise, it's very similar to Light contact Advantages Include: Ability to work at speed and reasonably power against resisting opponent. Less bad habit of pulling than light contact. Disadvantages include: Unrealistic abilities and inabilities cause by padding. Unrealistic understandings of damage inflicted and recieved due to padding. A limitation of availiable techniques similar to Light Contact[/b] due to teh limitations of padding. Slow motion sparring Slow motion sparring, done most often in Chinese arts, relies on a control of speed. Combatatiants fight, but at a snails pace. Advantages include: An almost unlimited availability of techniques. The ability to work against a resisting opponent. The ability to "think while fighting" to improve on mistakes. The ability to perform a technique as you would in a fight. Disadvantages include: A lack of exposure to the timing and effect of speed. A lower "fear coctail" level than other sparring methods. An unrealistic understanding of one's ability to respond to sudden changes.

The problem is proving that you were right. "Self Defence" is what's referred to as an "affirmitive defence"... you carry a burden of proof. Always a judgement and decision you need to make for yourself. I'm just discussing the reality. Once his swing starts, the fight is on. Worthy of note, however, is that you moving into his personal space in an aggressive manner may, itself, constitute an attack from which *he* can rightly attack you to defend his personal space (depends on state). Your state does not believe in witnesses? In civil court, it's a matter of "which stroy is more likely". In criminal court "I was defending myself" is an affirimitve defense and must be proven. And unless you escape to safety and then call the police, you have just fled the scene of a crime (which is, itself, a crime) "I felt threatened" is not a viable deffence. The most friendly of states fall under "a reasonable person would have felt threatened", and the other end of the specturm includes "couldn't retreat and reacted with the minimum force possible". Stopping in the middle of a fight is a horribly dangerous idea.