AndrewGreen

Yes, but partners aren't always available, which method is more effective timewise is another issue, I don't know the answer to that one. But I believe kata are a useful drill. I agree to that. Small world, I live in Garden City.

Ah, I see what you're getting at now. Yeah, these are the people that the "anti-kata" martial artists are usually holding up when making their points. Knowing the applications of the kata and being able to use them in variation is the most important thing, IMHO. No.. not quite anyway. The techniques are what is important, but I don't see them as being learned through kata. Rather the techniques are learnt, and kata is a drill which helps in applying them thorugh stronger posture and mechanics. Sort of like doing knuckle pushups will give your wrist a better structure for punching, same with kata but more complicated. The purpose of the pushup is not to teach you how to punch though. I'm near Kildonan Place.

Thats ok, I seem to offend a lot of shoto-folk. Doesn't seem to bother people of other styles as much though. You guys must know something the rest of us don't. Kyel-san: " However, the point of the kata was to develop my stances and the strength of my legs. Not everything is 100% applicable " I think we agree for the most part. What is the purpose of Sil lim tao? Most seem to say develop structure. Karate kata are the same. But some think that they should be applied exactly as is, and that is the goal behind them.

I never said they are of no merit, I said that bunkai is not what gives kata any merit. If you want to learn locking, learn locking, then you will see it in kata. Same for any skill, even ones that you can be pretty sure where not seen by the author. Kata are a drill which can help with the game, but they can't teach you the game. Now a few years back I would have agreed with you, I bunkai-ed kata to death, and found all sorts of things that where useful. But it just got silly. I could find pretty much anything in a kata, even things that I was pretty sure the creator wouldn't have known. their are certain movements and postures that the human body is strong at, kata helps you learn to move in a structurally strong way, thats what it does.

Kata are just a training tool, they help with balance, posture, body mechanics, etc. Thats it. They won't teach you to spar, they won't teach you to fight, they are a poor way of learning technique application. And now for the controversial part... Bunkai is NOT what makes a kata valuable, bunkai is not important to kata. What kata has to offer has nothing to do with applying the sequences in it. It has to do with the movements and postures involved. If you understand locks, you'll see locks with no trouble. If you understand throws, you'll see throws with no trouble. If you understand strikes, you'll see strikes with no trouble. I can even show ground work if I want to.... But its all silly, it misses the point, "looking" for kata application is meaningless. If you understand "strikes/throws/locks/etc." you will be able to see how kata movements are similar. But to say this is contained in kata is not right. You can say the motions of this are similar to the motions found here in kata. There is a BIG difference. So while I can say the motions this armlock from a guard position is similar to the motions in this kata, thats fine. Saying this armlock from guard is found in this kata is wrong. Same for everything else.

Martial arts schools are still businesses, we need to opperate as a business otherwise the their won't be a business. Nobody opens a school to get rich, but the bills still need to be paid. The landlord needs a contract, the phone company does, utility bills need paid. Plus living expenses, employees, common area costs, etc. Contracts are neccessary, I did it without for the same reasons everyone here is bringing up. I'll never do that again. Not knowing how the rent is going to get paid next month, people leaving for summer holidays, on and off students... its just not worth it. When you start training their are costs to the school, many give you a uniform, a special intro offer, you need special attention since you don't know what to do which takes away from the other members. After a few months you become a benefit, but before that you are not. If I am going to commit teaching you, I'd expect you to commit to learning. Now I don't think you should have to sign before you're allowed to start. Their should be some trial period. But if you want to do it don't get supprised when your asked to commit.

For what purpose? putting on a show or actually learning to use them correctly?

Of course, They describe it as a hybrid of Muay Thai and submission Wrestling. The thread just got sidetracked on the ideas of shooting.

I wouldn't say that, it just can be used in that way. But you don't shoot unless there is an opening. Same as you don't punch if there isn't an opening.

Alright, I see what you're trying to get at. The timing on it is important. You can set up an opening or creat one, on a fairly untrained guy you can oftne just do it as they won't expect it. It can be set up with strikes, jab cross shoot. I can wait for you to initiate something and then go before you can recover. You initate a kick, I shoot. But like with everything, the timing is impotant. Same for striking, if you throw a kick, you are vulnerable while that leg is out. If you throw a hooking punch, you risk having the other guy go under it and into a clinch or takedown.

There are as many different ways to take a person down as there are to punch them. All irrelevant, just how this will effect shooting. You said a striker would easily deal with this, What could they do differently outside of the ring? Even surface with no obstacles: so instead of landing on a flat smooth floor with some give to it, your hitting a much harder surface. Weapons: Not always there, if they are both of us have access, Bouncer: Only in a barfight, that doesn't stack things against me though. Allies: I have friends too, why always the assumption that he Always will and I never will? Slip or trip on: Are you saying this increases the odds of it going to the ground? Lighting, we both can see or we both can't. But couldn't that make it harder to see the shoot coming? Nowhere to dodge: Shooting works well in the middle of the ring. There are space restrictions in bars and allies to. Which was part of your claim, remember clear area, smooth surface...) "What if..." games can get out of hand as this one will. Shooting is a proven method of taking a person down. Even if they are a skilled striker. It may not always be the best option, but it does work. Whether or not that is a tactically good idea at the time depends on the situation. But a few "What if..."'s where it isn't doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. What if all you want to do is restrain this person, without serious injury? Striking won't accomplish this. Shoot, get a dominant position, hold it and stay close, that will. Striking has a place, grappling has a place. Doing both is always the best plan, unless of course you train for a competition sport which only allows one.

Tell me, what is the difference between shooting in the rind and shooting on the street? and as for having stopped a tackle, if a untrained person throws a punch at a grappler and it doesn't land, does that mean punching doesn't work?

Shootfighting is the style of Bart Vale, and the name is a registered trademark. His website is: http://www.2shoot.com/ Basically it is Muay Thai combined with submission wretling. Many of the top fighters in UFC and other events referred to their style as "shootfighting", but the name being trademarked has stopped this. Ken Shamrock was called a shootfighter durring the early days. As a result you'll also see "shootwrestling", "shootboxing", "pancrase", "NHB", "MMA", "Hybrid fighting", and all sorts of other names, but all are basically the same thing. Shooting is as Bon said, shooting in. Going for the single or double leg. Jimmy have you ever had an experienced person shoot at you? You don't get to stop it with strikes. For the most part you either sprawl or find yourself on your back real fast. Shooting has proved its effectivness in MMA and NHB fights time and time again, but I guess those strikers and grapplers weren't very experienced.

Depends, usually about 2 feet, or a little more. Some times the 2 outside pieces are longer, sometimes the middle one is, sometimes they're all the same length. There is no one measurement that right for everyone.

Nunchaku can be various sizes depending on preferance. Some say 12", some 14", some say length of forearm, doesn't really matter, Its personal preference. Same as length of the string, it depends on the user. Sansetsu kun usually refers to a 3 sectional staff though. Sanbon nunchaku is used. of course their are likely other choices of terms used by different people.

Modern Kickboxing originater from karate practitioners as Jack said. Muay Thai came from Thailand. Kickboxing, as in pugilism involving the hands and feet, has been around a lot longer then either. Probably every country could claim to be the creators of some form of kickboxing if you go back in history a bit. Even western boxing allowed kicks at one time. Does that mean the english created kickboxing? How about savate? it allows kicks. See the point? Right now, in north america, their are really two main branches of kickboxing. Muay Thai, and what is often called "American Kickboxing", which has its origins in Karate.

Most Okinawan karate schools do some weapons. Ryukyu (Okinawan) Kobudo uses a lot of different weapons, the Bo being the most popular. Sai, tonfa, nunchaku and kama are pretty standard as well. The Eku, timbae / rochin, tekko, sansetsu kun, suruchin, nunti-bo, kuwa, and a few others are often done as well. Various Kung Fu groups do weapons training. There are also some groups that train European weapons - Swords, quarter staff, axes, polearms, mace, etc. Arnis/Escrima/Kali do sticks & blades. Sport Karate schools can put on a fancy show using things which "resemble" weapons. Wushu will include weapons performance as well. If you really want to learn to use them, try to find a place that spars with them (Lots of fun and very important). However you'll likely not have many options, weapons training is not as common as hand to hand. Most of my students involved with weapons come from my karate class, very few start mainly for the weapons.

Running a full time business is a full time job, usually with a lot of overtime. So teach about 30 hrs a week, lets go really low and add 10 for admin (probably closer to 20-30) PLUS 40 hrs a week at another job. This is leaving out personal training and development completely BTW. Thats 80+ hrs a week!! No, I'd rather do one thing right and retain some time for myself. Why do people have such a hard time with martial arts instructor's making money? Do you think swimming instructors worry about losing focus on the "art"? How about Music instructors? Dance? University Profs? Do you think what you are learning has so little value that its not worth paying someone to take the time to provide a facility, to keep it clean, to keep the records, to deal with the gov't and to TEACH it to you? Not to mention that opening a business is a HUGE financial risk to the one who signs the papers. Now there are some things that are done that I don't agree with. But martial arts instructors do need to eat.

I have to disagree, Philosophy and Science try to do this, and they are not religions. What makes a religion a religion is not so much what the beliefs are about, but how they are achieved and maintained. Religion is based on faith. More then the 5 you listed I think religion is more about morals & ethics and how you should go about living your life. If I remember correctly that was part of what Freud said, that religion is to create a state of order, this is done by having ethical standards attributed to something higher then Humans. This higher entity acts as a father figure, punishing wrong behavior and rewarding good behavior. It helps to create a state of order. - Paraphrased and interpreted from memory, so I may be mixing things up. It has also been stated the religion does whatever science can't. As science evolves religion evolves filling in the new unexplainable areas. Religion could also be considered something which is to create a sense of community among a large group of people. Not to mention that these all assume religion is created, to many their religion is the truth, it has been passed down through the generations and was formed through divine revelation. They cannot prove this to you, nor can you prove they are wrong. Temptation and faith are a part of many schools of thought. No matter what you are shown as evidence against a religion, you must keep faith, as it is a test of how strong your faith really is.

LeaF, Religion is often a touchy subject, and this is a martial arts board not a philosophy board. However all of your quotes are somewhat onesided. If you want to poll people on their thoughts on religion it might help to have quotes from some of the supporters, perhaps Anselm or Aquinas could be quoted on this. That said, I tend to agree most with Freud with a little David Hume thrown in. But the quotes you give are somewhat incomplete. Without being more familiar with the quoted authors writings it would be hard to make a such a call. For example, As far as I know Freud never claimed that any religion was wrong. He just explained that religion would have occured regardless of whether or not their was any truth to it. But the quote may be read that he is claiming religion is wrong, which he doesn't. An argument against beleif in religion can be formed based on his writings, but their is nothing which can be used to prove that any given religion is false. More like if its true, its just a coincedence, but that is a bit of an oversimplification.

Without seeing your technique its hard to say. But if your movements are correct the intent behind them has to be there as well. You have to hit through the target, not at it.

I own my a school, best advice I can give is don't be hesitant to change things if they're not working. Teach because you enjoy it, adapt, innovate and train hard. Most people come to get into shape, push them and get them the results they want. Do this while teaching good solid techniques in a fun and enjoyable way. Do what you feel is best, not what your instructor did, because his instructor did it, back to someone in Asia. Word of mouth is the best method of recruiting, most print advertising won't work well enough to make it worth while.

Just a quick minor point. Sai are Okinawan not Japanese. They most likely came to Okinawa through China, and to their from indonesia. The sai are not used in Korean martial arts, its not a korean weapon. Any schools doing it just "borrowed" it from an Okinawan style, or made it up themselves. Why do you want to learn them? Just for forms competition, or do you really want to learn to use them correctly? Oh, and the Japanese equivelant of the sai is the Jitte, a smaller version with only one prong.

Gehrig, That is certainely true, however I believe the poster was referring to the Yelling aspect which is often referred to as a "kiai", this I believe to be a bad idea. One could make a case that I kiai quite often, but I very rarely yell, and on the rare occasion that I do, its because I am "playing". My point was that one should not yell, thats all. It is a Japanese word, most of the people here are not Japanese. Non-japanese often use Japanese words differently then Japanese people do. So to most English speaking karate practitioners saying "kiai" means to them "yelling loudly". When someone says "sensei" they generally mean a karate teacher, not the Japanese meaning. Same for "gi", which means nothing on its own. Or "geri", a japanese Person would get out of the room fast if you said you where going to practice your "geri-waza". However if you want to debate the translation and meanings of Japanese terms, Im not the person to do it with. I know enough to know that I've made some pretty big mistakes and ought to just speak english.

A lot of the time this will depend on the individual instructor, not the style. Just ask the instructor before hand if they do contact sparring later on. Or you could go with on of many full contact sports styles (Muay Thai, boxing, shoot fighting, etc.)