DWx

Dobbersky, I didn't mean the money comment aimed at you specifically, I just have a hard time accepting why some schools even bother with the age restriction on the BB rank at all if the only thing that separates them is this maturity criteria or what they are physically capable of. The idea of maturity is so dependant on the individual. I personally would just assess each student on a case by case basis. And as I said previously, unless you are going to hold back smaller adults, like say a 5' 110 lb woman, you can't necessarily discriminate against younger students as a lot of them can be bigger than that. FWIW my own style does use them but the JBB has less strenuous requirements and if the student really wishes to, they can try the adult test for a full BB. I don't condone it TBH and if or when I have my own school, I'd probably just keep the student at 1st gup.

Welcome kamasabi Never trained with them but the stuff website seems ok..

They've started season 2 now

I don't think that analogy really holds true. Mostly the reason why we have the age restriction is because there's no way the government (or DVLA) can take a personal approach and look at the maturity level of each applicant. I would hope that as the instructor of a blackbelt candidate, you would have spent 3+ years getting to know the person and would be able to assess what they were mature enough to grade and if not, hold them back based on that and not age. And of course, as you often see driving around, not all 16/17 year olds are mature enough to be driving a car in the first place. Also FYI, as an aside, you can drive a car at any age on private property and you can compete in certain types of motorsport from the age of 8. Besides which, the blackbelt doesn't mean anything like the car licence does. Unless you're saying that the syllabus is different, as in you're not going to teach them certain content until they mature, then why not just hold them at 1st kyu? Why make them do that additional grading to get the JBB? Unless you want the money?? Also if we really want to take a look at deadly weapons (in the UK), shotgun licenses have no minimum age; it's up to the discretion of the issuing police force. There have even been a number of cases where a person under 10 years old have been deemed responsible enough to be granted a license. As it happens, I think I was around 14 when I first got mine which is the same age I got my blackbelt.

To add to Brian's post, I'm most familiar with Gen. Choi's / the ITF's forms myself. Large sections of the forms were copied from your more traditional kata but then other bits were added to fit more within TKD way of doing things and to "improve" them. I can assure you also that in most TKD schools hyungs are not there simply for passing grades. Or are Karate kata adding in something or are somehow fundamentally different from what we are practising? Why are the TKD hyungs of lesser worth than Karate kata?

The points I list in bold give rise to some points for me. Situational awareness is something I believe that is a bit easier to train when not actively, physically training. Just taking the time while standing around to study where you are at, and come up with some scenarios in your mind of how to react to various stimuli. I'm not trying to over-simplify this concept, but I think its one that can be more easily intertwined amongst the two styles. As far as scenario training goes, I agree and disagree. No, the fight training is not likely covering weapons scenarios or impromptu muggings. But, they do plug contact levels into the scenario more often than not, and end up training under a more intense level than some RBSD scenarios. But, this is dependent on the trainers, as well. Good points. TBH, perhaps because I've decided not to really pursue self-defense training, I don't know how much time and effort people tend to put into training scenarios. I guess you're right in that situational awareness isn't something which needs to be trained in the gym per se but a pure competition fighter could easily work this into their day. Perhaps another to consider, which competition fighters might not be bothered with, is conflict de-escalation. Whilst strictly not something you might physically train for, it's something that wouldn't necessarily cross the mind of your average competition fighter unless they wanted to think about self-defense. Another thing to consider is that those that practice for self-defense might not have a grasp on other tactics which come into play when competing: things like ring control, what techniques give you more points, and fighting on a longer time scale and the tactics which go with that.

But that is not a problem with the JBB rank as such, that is a problem with the school for not building in a maturity requirement into the rank or at least taking how the person acts into account. Being a BB is about skill but also you are acting as an ambassador for your school and style. Few people will look at colour belts but will definitely notice how the blackbelts act and how they conduct themselves. Doesn't matter what the age is when getting the rank because people develop maturity at different rates, I've known 12 year olds who have acted more mature that 16 or even 17 year olds. Heck even some adults are very immature. If the 9 year old acted like that he shouldn't have been granted rank in the first place or if he developed this once in rank, the school should have done something about it. If he didn't have the speed or power appropriate to the rank he shouldn't have been graded to that rank either. It sounds like the JBB has reduced requirements so why not hold him at 1st kyu instead of making him pay for another grading? (McDojo???) With regards to your final paragraph, that's great and I think that's how it should be. But I wouldn't say that a child wouldn't be able to do it. Not every child will but you will get some who can. Especially those who have effectively lived in the dojo from a young age. And if a child can't, you could argue that neither can some smaller women.

I would think that fight training, depending on which ruleset you're using, is a good basis for self defense but perhaps the relationship isn't seen as much on the other side. And if you wanted to train high levels of either, you'd probably be better restricting yourself to one aspect. MMA and knockdown fighters will have the physical fitness and levels of athleticism which will only help in self defense. They also certainly know how to take a hit and dish them back out, so they could most likely successfully defend themselves. They would be lacking though in the use of weapons, scenario training, environmental awareness and also you'd think that they wouldn't have a great deal of experience in facing or dealing with multiple attackers and wouldn't have training in some techniques that are prohibited in competition. On the other side of the coin, someone who'd only trained in a self-defense system might have to retrain somewhat to be good at competition. Probably the biggest barrier is they might be using techniques/target areas which aren't allowed in the ring and to rewrite those instincts might take a little bit of time. And of course learning weapons usage and training scenarios is probably wasted time if they were looking to compete. On an amateur level they'd probably be ok. I know in my training I've made the concious decision to do the bare minimum self defense training and focus more on competition for the time being because it's just too much to focus on both.

One thing I've always found about the martial arts is that it attracts people who really don't care that much what others look like or how much they weigh when you're all training together. No matter what you weigh or look like, martial arts seem to have this sort of camaraderie that goes with it so try not to be self concious because in reality, no one cares that you're a bit overweight, if anything they'll be rooting for you to lose it and get fitter and will help you do so. As an aside, I know the weight is something that bothers you but instead, when you start training, don't focus on what the scales say but look at other things like how much fitter you're getting and how much stronger and flexible you are. TBH you might find that the scales don't change a whole lot or as much as you'd want because you'll be putting muscle on too. What really motivates me is looking at a picture of what I looked like say 6 months ago and seeing the difference so I really do recommend taking a photo now and then getting it out in a few months time to see how much you've changed even if the scales don't say so. I'm worse than you at the moment, 22 yrs, 5'10", 240 lb and I'll be the first to admit I could do with losing a ton of weight, but when I first started training, I couldn't even finish a warmup without being seriously out of breath, now I can run the warmup, (talking the whole way through!) and not be gasping at the end. The scales haven't changed much but I can run rings around the "normal" weight people and for me this is more important. Also don't worry about being the unfit one or the uncoordinated one; everyone started out this way. Even the really fit blackbelts who seem like superhumans started out as the unfit white belt who struggled to look like they had control over their own limbs when moving. What schools are you looking at? I didn't think charging for an induction session was a thing.. In any case, make sure you go to each school and try out a could of the classes. The actual style isn't all that important; more important is the feel of the school, the atmosphere, the sensei's teaching style and whether the school will fit your needs.

Bit late to the party, but I think the core issues here are: 1. What is Karate? Is it simply any martial art descended from a common Japanese/Okinawan line that contains a common core of techniques? Or is it any system that practises the three K's? If one of these K's is removed does it stop being Karate even if the practitioners still do the same techniques and have the same core principles, they move and fight in the same way? Would we be having this discussion if OP had asked if we could have Karate without Kumite? or Kihon? In TKD we practise fundamental exercise (gibon yonsup), sparring (matsogi) and "kata" (hyung/tul). It's also descended mostly from Shotokan. Is TKD a form of Karate because it practises the three K's and comes from the same origin? Or is there some other fundamental difference in what makes TKD TKD and Karate Karate. 2. What's the purpose of Kata? Can you not teach all the lessons of Kata in a different format? What are kata teaching that I couldn't get from drilling techniques up and down the room? Does it matter if I make up my own kata and teach them to my students? If I were teaching my own made up kata containing Karate techniques (like DWx shodan, DWx nidan etc. DWx-Dai and DWx-Sho) and not "official" kata am I no longer teaching Karate? If that's the case then which kata make Karate? Not all styles of Karate practice the same kata. If a kickboxer drilled the same combination of techniques in the same sequence everytime he trained is that now a kata? Is he now doing Karate? FYI I actually like having kata as part of my training (even though we don't call them that). For me I find it is a great tool to teach rhythm, footwork, focus, techniques, methodology etc. but I do agree with MasterPain and Bushido that you can train without. But perhaps what makes Karate Karate is that it does rely on such training methods instead of finding newer and better(?) alternatives.

I don't think rank is simply the reason why kata should be part of Karate. Besides ranks are not equal across styles. They only give an indication of skill level and knowledge when you've considered which style the rank is awarded in. BJJ doesn't have kata yet you got your blackbelt after 3-4(?) years. A BJJ practitioner probably won't get his until he's 10 years into his training, If anything you could say that skill level being equal, your kickboxing friend advanced faster because he didn't have kata eating away at his time and slowing him down! He had more time to train the techniques and strategies themselves rather than wasting his time using an archaic training method. But of course the reality probably was that the skill levels were nowhere near equal.

I think that's great that you got to continue learning requirements through the rank of sandan.My question is, what the difference between knowing those requirements as a junior, and knowing them when you came of age to hold the rank? To me, it seems a formality of age, and not of passing on knowledge. Unless I'm missing something that I would understand better being a Shindokan stylist, not knowing the intricacies of what you learned when you did. I'm with Brian on this one. No offence meant and I know you have to adhere to the By-Laws of your Hombu, but when you get down to it, what is the difference between the JBB rank and a normal BB rank? If you've learnt all the requirements and can perform to the standard expected, what is the difference really? Often times I sometimes think that the JBB rank is a way of adults making themselves feel better that a kid got the same rank as they did.

^ Yes Bob, that's kinda what I'm getting at. I guess in a sense I'm trying to say, when did you move past the superficial level of just saying a technique is wrong and giving a correction for it to being able to move back along the chain and see why they were trying to do it that way in the first place. A lot of the time, for me, corrections I give tend to be centred around stances and stance transitions which if wrong, through a chain then affect the strikes and kicks themselves. The signs we see when something is wrong is manifested in the kicks and punches (i.e. the symptoms) and more often than not, the right correction to give for a better punch isn't to do something different with the arm itself but usually it's in the feet, the weight and the body posture first. I guess in my training why I'm only developing this way of looking at techniques relatively later on compared to you guys is because I just haven't been around lower grades particularly for the last 5 or so years. I've only really been around higher grades than myself or my peers.

I agree with MasterPain in that it kinda depends on what the style is and what the style's goals are. And of course this wouldn't work with a weapons system I'd also question whether it is worth retraining yourself or spending time training specifically for this one fight before blackbelt? How about having it as a requirement for going 1st to 2nd dan? If you'd hope to be successful in this fight (against other amateurs?) you might have to spend time learning extra stuff to give yourself a well rounded game. Still I think that you should push your blackbelt candidates and having to get in the cage would be a great way to do this. I'd be more inclined to go this way. How about a 50 man kumite type challenge with the school's high grades? We're not required to compete but we are definitely encouraged a lot. Even if you aren't going there to win medals, it's a great way of measuring your ability against others from different schools and really makes you train hard in preparation.

This is exactly what I'm talking about I think why I'm only really starting to see the roots now is that I'm taking a more active role in helping to assist in class and am working with lower grades for a change. For the past 4-5 years I've only really been in the dojang for myself because of my schedule and even then it's been in sessions with other blackbelts only so I've not even been exposed to lower grades much. For example one of the mid-level colour belts was looking like their punches weren't doing much. Simple solution was to speed the arm up because it was moving too slow but because in my style we say the technique and stance finish as one, speeding up his arm would have meant out of sync, less use of mass and an even poorer looking technique. When properly looking at him, you could see his stance transitions were off because he'd hover the moving leg slightly before accelerating. Taking that a step back even further and it was because he wasn't getting the weight distribution right and so was hovering his leg to regain balance momentarily. So really for a more powerful punch, the solution for him was to look at how he was stepping through and his weight management. It's weird but it's almost like those "a-ha!" eureka moments you have as a student but now as a teacher too.

I don't think this has to be the case and definitely not always a symbol of a belt factory. You're not teaching them martial arts itself. If anything it's teaching the life lessons of martial arts with a bit of motor skills thrown in. We have a Little Warriors programme at my school and the kids go through that then when they're old enough they start the proper programme from white belt. It often gives them a leg up on other students because they already know the procedure and what's expected of them and have better control over their techniques than total beginners. Maybe you could call it a glorified gymnastics programme but it is a great way of attracting students who can then feed into your main class. And you can think of it as 1-2 hours of your week doing something which can generate money for you to use for proper students: buying equipment or help subsidise their training fees.

What kind of training schedule are you on now? How many times a week are you training and what are you training? Maybe others on the forum could help you out with what you could be doing.

Yes, when should I book the flights? Do you ever do Shindokan training days like this? Our group of TKD schools get together ever 6 months or so for a couple of days and instructors take it in turns to teach sessions in their speciality area or to give their take on a subject. I think it's great for branching out from your instructor and seeing things a different way. The closest I've come to a mixed style sharing session would be the "mashups" we had been all the university clubs. We'd take it in turns for a group to lead the warmups and then break off to do whatever and learn a bit from other people or just free spar.

This thread isn't really just aimed at instructor's but I thought it'd probably be most appropriate here. At what stage did you guys start really being able to say why a student's technique was wrong? I've been training for about 11 years now but it's only more recently that I've found myself actually being able to work backwards and pinpoint the cause. I'm not talking about the obvious things like when the student isn't punching centre or their body position is wrong and you say so and correct it, but being able to work backwards and say that their punch is wrong because there's this problem with their stance and it's affecting this and results in that. I guess what I'm getting at is when did you move past looking at the symptoms of bad technique and start understanding the causes?

Bit late to this thread but that's a really good point. Teaching kids is a whole different thing to teaching adults. With adults I can say "you feet should be approximately 45° because..." but kids have no concept of angles unless you relate it to something that they already know.

You can be professional, if you put the time and effort in and have the right trainer. But to be a champion, IMO you need all of what I've mentioned and a little bit of natural talent too. If you're serious about it, start training! You're at a good age for it. Start getting your fitness up and develop a strength programme. Drill combinations and techniques then spar loads. Spar everyone you can and start working your way through your local tournaments. If you want to go pro, you have got to start somewhere so start training now. Speak to your current instructor about doing some tournaments and say that you want to get some extra training in.

I'm by no means an expert but what I would say is don't market it to target children per se, but target parents who have children. If you have a 5 year old (whose probably just started school), what kind of extracurricular activity would you sign them up for? I think mainly, make it sound like it's fun for the kid and put an emphasis on the types of skills they'll develop and how they'll develop things like confidence and gross motor skills etc. Hype it up as a program that's going to support stuff they'll be developing in school like learning discipline and learning to work with others their own age. Also if you have some sort of certification to say you're ok to work with children (in the UK we have CRB checks) make sure that the parents know this as they'll feel safer leaving little Joey Bloggs with you. As far as advertising, flyers or ads in the local paper, maybe see if you can get the local infant school to let you put up a poster or send out flyers, maybe even a demo at a school fair or assembly. Could even hand out flyers at a local supermarket in the evenings when mums and dads would be shopping. Good luck with the programme

I don't think I've ever had this problem?? Usually in situations like this, the most senior person in terms of position or knowledge tends to lead or if not, the person who naturally comes across as a leader through their personality.. In informal training time, I think someone just kind of natural comes to the fore and there isn't really an argument about it.

It's great, especially when these kids show bucket loads of enthusiasm and can see that 10 years down the line they'll be awesome martial artists. I actually think that's great that you're not making your son join MA. At our club we see a lot of kids who get signed up by their parents who also train but the kids don't really want to be there.

I'm not sure what kind of boards they brought in, but I've never had boards break by dropping them. And I've seen bounces by moderately sized adults with bad technique that I would have been ashamed to call a technique. But, everyone has different experiences. Likewise, the only boards we would have that might break when dropped are those intended for the kids but even then they'd have to fall onto something to break. Tameshiwara does of course become pointless if you are using boards or materials that pose no challenge.