Shorinryu Sensei

Shadow boxing is when you kick/punch at imaginary foes...not unlike kata, but different in the sense that there is no preset pattern other than what you are imagining in your mind.

Personally, I think teaching two different types of striking arts like TKD and Shotokan by different instructors is going to run into some problems. Like "Ous is better than there's." I've taught in the same space as judo and aikido sensei before and it worked out fine because they are such different arts as what I do.

Kata and shadow boxing (shadow karate?).

I believe you become a martial artist when the skills you have learned become a part of your automatic reflexes and you find that you don't have to think about what you want to do any longer, but rather just react automatically to an attack/stimulus. Prior to that time, you are a martial arts practioner....maybe?

As Sauzin stated, that is a matter of opinion. IMO what you're calling "more efficient", I would call leaving out HUGE aspects of the origional art, adding rules and limitations, and forgetting a lot of what made those arts in their origional forms such a great means of self-defense just to turn them into a kinder, gentler form of entertainment for the masses. Sure, I know the UFC/Pride is not what anybody would consider gentle by any means, but they have turned the arts you've mentioned into a gladiator type entertainment spectacle, and in the majority of cases their end goals are to gain fame and fortune (as in money), pure and simple, not to better themselves or to protect themselves as the art was origionally intended.

Another thing we need to keep in mind here is the objective of a traditional martial artist and a UFC/Pride fighter. A traditional martial artists goal is for self-improvement and advancing his/her skills to the point of being able to protect their lives, whereas a UFC/Pride fighter trains long and hard hours to win in a competition, not on the street. Many of these UFC/Pride people, competition is their job, not just a goal that they have. Don't take that as a slam against the UFC/Pride people not being able to handle themselves on the street, as surely they can, but that is NOT their objective. IMO, literally anybody can learn to defend themselves. Blind, deaf, physically handicapped, fat or thin. How many blind people do you see in the UFC/Pride? How many people my age (52) or older? How many 98 lb weaklings? How many women? Yet all of these people (even me ) can effectively learn to defend themselves in a self-defense situation. That is our goal, not getting into a ring with some steroid using mauler intent on rearranging my face.

One thing that we need to keep in mind here is that the martial arts were origionally intended and developed for personal protection against one or more opponents, armed or not. It was never intended as a sport or with an objective to "take down the opponent at all costs". Whether or not the "ultimate fighters" can protect themselves in the streets is obvious, sure they can, and quite well I imagine. I disagree that this is the true test of a martial art, as ultimate fighting is still a sport with rules, no weapons or multiple opponents, not real life. I'm an old fashioned kind of martial artist. I feel the arts were designed to protect yourself, a loved one, or a total strange if you choose to do so, and that's it. It's not for sport. It's not to impress your friends or the cute girl down the block, and it's not to build better bodies. It's for protection of yourself or others. Now, if you choose to use it for competition, or to impress people, or to lose weight and get in better shape, that's fine, but that's not what it was origionally intended for. To say that entering a ring with rules and an equally prepared opponent is the true test of being a martial artist is absolutly wrong. The true test is, IMHO, can you stay alive if attacked on the street in a real confrontation? Can you protect your family with it? If so, then yes, that is the true test. If not...well, maybe you need to train harder, or rethink what you're doing.

And you're admitting this is public?

In Montana it's breakfast-lunch-dinner, sofa, and any "cola" is called a ~Coke~, regardless of what brand it is. We go "down" to the store, or "over" to a friends house. Eh?

Once again I find myself agreeing with Shorin Ryuu and Sauzin. Teaching yourself weapons, or empty hand techniques for that matter, will produce sloppy, ineffective and inefficient technique most of the time. You may think it's great because you don't have any experience with real technique to compare it to.

1st situation, your instructor showed much wisdom and acted correctly. 2nd situation, if that was my student, I'd warn him once...maybe twice...and if he continued, bounce his rear out of class.

In the system/association I belong to, we have set kata that are required for each belt level. We don't get to chose which ones we want to do. I suspect this is the way the majoirty of systems work.

Funny you should mention that Jay....if I can swing it, I hope to go to England again sometime this Winter or Spring. Realistically though, I'm have doubts that I'm be able to afford it. And if I do, martial arts will not be on the agenda. Unless of course you'd care to sponser (and pay) for my trip, then of course, I could make an exception!

Well, if it had been me...and that's just me mind you...and being the old, stupid guy that I am, I probably would have gone over and said something like "Are we having a problem over here? Can I help?" But like I said, that's just me. Everybody does what they feel is right and justified at the time. I'm just a meddling old guy that likes to stick his nose into places that aren't always appropriate.

Although I have heard mixed reviews about Sensei Koeppel, the system itself is EXCELLENT and I highly recommend it.

I've taught classes in both a high school and college settings. What do you mean by "cause and effect"?

Say what you will about exotic sports cars, but give me some good old late '60's, early 70's muscle cars any day! My preference is a '69 Plymouth Roadrunner or GTX. I had a '68 Roadrunner way back when, and sold it, in 90% perfect condition mind you, in '76 for a measly $500! That car today, in the same condition, would sell for around $15-20,000 or so. Why did I sell it so cheap? Back then gas was an outragous $.86/gallon (considered outragously high at the time) and everybody was dumping their big block "gas guzzlers" for dirt cheap. *sigh*...if I'd have only known!!!

Is laying down on the floor whimpering like a baby better than at least standing up for yourself and trying to defend yourself? How do you know you won't win, or at least survive, if you don't at least try? How do you know you will die? Sure, you might take a beating, but broken bones heal, as do bruises. Better to at least try to defend yourself than to just lay there and get the snot beat our of you. I know I wouldn't be able to show my face in class, or anywhere else for that matter, if I did that. Times change I guess. This is such a kinder, gentler society than I grew up in I guess. Run where? As I, and others have said, you'd better be an accomplished runner if you think they won't eventually catch you. And maybe you get away from them this time...you think they won't be looking for you another time? It would be a matter of time before they would catch you somewhere. I guess you could leave town and move elsewhere. I know I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder. Please tell me, just how would you do that? I haven't learrned that one yet. As I mentioned in my first post, there are a number of methods to fight multiple opponents. Perhaps one day your instructor will teach you some. Do some searching of threads on thsi forum. I know this subject has been covered pretty throughly at least once, if not more times.

Where do you come up with this stuff??? Your profile says you're learning not one, but 4 different martial arts...aren't any of them teaching you anything about fighting multiple opponents? If not, go find a good Shorin Ryu school. The tactics you are suggesting with acting silly and faking seizures will just get your butt kicked.

Then you must scare easily. I wouldn't recommend it.

It isn't the quanity of the time you have in an art, but rather the quality of time you've had. To place an exact number of hours needed to attain the ability to teach isn't a good thing to do IMO. Some people, despite being excellent martial artists themselves, just don't have the ability to teach and pass on the information that they possess.

All good advise so far, but I'd add that when you're in close, use your elbows, and at a distance, low kicks to the leg, groin and lower abdomen. Do not try to kick him in the head or you will be out in less than a second. He'll move in and nail you while your foot's in the air...that is, if he's any good he will.

I darn near fell out of my seat laughing at that one!

As a general rule of thunb, if your instructor says "go for it"..then, go for it! Odds are he stretches out his wrists so that they are very flexible and won't damage easily, plus he knows what's coming and can compensate for it. He's given you permission to take him down (if you can that is), so any damage that you may inflict on him shouldn't reflect on you as the student. As for your other question about how much it takes to dislocate a persons joint, that varies with each person. I've had a couple of people in class that have a tremendous threashold to pain, and you would nearly rip their joint apart before they would react to it. Enough pressure should be applied that the person is forced to comply, but not injure them.

I think that's why my back hurt so bad that weekend Sauzin...I upset your little pinky somehow, it struck but I managed to keep from getting killed somehow. You'll be hearing from my lawyers any day now. Howmuch, Wegonnaget & How, LLC.