Shorinryu Sensei

Alrighty then...with respect also, I'll disagree with you this time (tag, you're it?) Just to give you my background and experience in Shorinryu, I have been practicing it since January of 1975 (30 years this January), so have a fair amount of experience in it. No, I don';t classify myself as an expert "know it all" of the system, and Shorin Ryuu , I would say, actually has better knowledge of many aspects of the art than I do, but I do know that Shorinryu has many...MANY circular techniques in it. Not just in striking/punching, but blocking, kicking (no, not a lot of spinning...but it's all in the angles), and in it's body shifting/movements. At 6'6" tall and around 235lbs, I'm a pretty big guy, and I love the circular techniques much better than the straight on, hard style techniques found in a lot of Japanese systems. I like fighting/sparring those guys. Very easy to get in on. The circular techniques no doubt come from the Shaolin, White Crane influence to the system way back when (Kusanku?)

I met Mr. McCarthy years ago at a tournament in Great Falls, Montana. He was quite knowledgable and seemed like a pretty nice, every day sort of man. I called him once maybe a year later with a question about a system that was opening a school near here and he was very helpful and nice about it. I haven't seen or spoken to him since that time. I can't really say that I know him, just met him (I met Ed parker once also)and spoke briefly with him. He's one of those "60's" karate pioneers like Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace. I have respect for his experience, but honestly don't have any knowledge of his martial arts background, what system he studied or who under. I don't follow the national karate scene, so have no idea what Mr. McCarthy is doing these days. I believe he was an editor of a martial arts publication when I met him, but don't remember which one. I haven't heard anything bad about hiom, but like I say, I don't follow what's going on in those circles.

Wait a second here...in your first post you said... From your statement, it sounds like you were drinking alcohol. Soda pop, fruit juice (nto counting wine of course) and water doesn't affect your fighting ability, so what else was I to gather from that statement except that you were drinking alcohol? Now you say... OK, so you weren't drinking...but then you said... OK, maybe I'm confused here...but were you drinking alcohol...or weren't you? And that's not what I did when I was young. Party, yes, but no alcohol until I was old enough to legally drink...and then I made up for the time I wasted not drinking! Be a leader..not a follower bud. Just because everybody else is doing it, doesnt' mean you have to. (Sorry, I'm a Dad...lecture over ) So, this guy that smashed a bottle over your head. You didn't know him...never seen him before and never had problems with him previously? And for some reason, he just jumps out of the crowd and picks you...not the guy next to you...to smash a bottle over your head? Why am I having problems believing this? Do you have a tattoo of a target on your head perhaps? do you wear a t-shirt that says "I'm the toughest, most bad-* MF'er you've ever met!" written on it? Come on guy...there had to be some reason he chose you to hit. People rarely jsut randomly hit somebody over the head with a bottle. If they wanted to do that, they would more liekly just toss it in the air and see who it hits..not step up to a total stranger and bash them. Now, you';ve had 4 1/2 years of martial arts training. 2 1/2 years of TKD, and 2 years of karate..right? And in the karate class that you took first, you were the best in the class? Doing the math here, and assuming you just quit the TKD class recently, and were in it for 2 1/2 years, then the oldest you could have been when you quit the karate class and assuming you immediately started the TKD class...(16 minus 2.5...carry the one....oh crap...need to sharpen my pencil )...was 13. Is my math right? And at 13, you were the best student your instructor had? Possible of course...but a bit surprising. No adults in the class at all? Look...I'm really not trying to pick on you....really. If you chose to frequent places where alcohol is served...or not served (get that story straight, will ya please?)..or you drink prior to going to these places, and these places are frequented by people that randomly hit other people in the head with bottles or just jump on you for no reason , then you need to find something else to do, or learn to defend yourself, or start being awware of your surroundings better. All of which, by the way, come out of good martial arts instruction.

Hey...guess what! Knife ---we do tons of knife defenses, and yes, it's a good weapon. Metal pipe/Baseball bat/Sticks Funny, depending on the length of the pipe..it can be used as a bo/staff, escrima/nitonbo or jo (short staff). Baseball bat/sticks just like an escrima/nitonbo? Possibly like tonfa/sai? Sounds like similar weapons to me. Glass Bottles OK, bottles are bottles. Belts/Chains Can be used just like nunchaku, and are practiced in the dojo that way. We learn kobudo/traditional weapons for several reasons. Tradition, strengthing of specific parts of the body, and the use of weapons in general. I may not have a pair of nunchaku in my back pocket if I get into a fight, but I will have a belt, possible a garden hose, rope or chain nearby that I can use. I might not carry a bo with me either, but a pool stick, baseball bat, pipe, flag pole, or 2x4 might be handy to use instead. Get the idea?

Martial Artists aren't Supermen (although I look pretty good in my Superman jammies! ), and despite what you see in the movies, we don't have a super Spidey-sense that warns us of somebody jumping us from behind or hitting us over the head with a beer bottle (they have clubs down under for drinking teens? *tsk tsk*) However, in the situations you describe above, I would imagine that these weren't incidents where you have had problems with these guys (blokes?) previously, and didn't have the training or experience to: 1. Stay sober in case you had to defend yourself. 2. Be aware of where these guys were at all times and their physical relationship to you. 3. Watch for danger signals. 4. Have enough sense to stay out of a place where these people would also be present. The martial arts teaches your brain and body how to react to a given situation. An occasional street fight doesn't do that. A good analogy would be if I gave you a baseball bat and underhanded a few pitches to you now and then. OK, you can swing the bat and sometimes hit the ball. Are you ready for the World Series now? I don't think so. You have some fundamentals of how to hit a baseball, but you're really not very good at it in the sense that you can hit it consistently, accurately, and hard. Especially when it's tossed at 98mph. Does that make sense? A few street fights doesn't really prepare you to fight. Sure, it helps because you are gaining experience with each one. That same experience is what the martial arts is all about. Our experiences are through rigorous training, constant (daily if possible) practice, sparring, self-defense techniques, etc. In other words, we are preparing to enter the "World Series" if we need to. By the way...at 16 years of age, you might think you know it all, done it all (typical teen attitude), but trust me bud...you haven't hardly scratched the surface of what the real world is like, and what is possible. My suggestion is to find a good martial arts teacher and sign up for some classes and see what happens. I think within the first week or two, you would come back here with an entirely different attitude about the arts. Assuming of course, you have a good instructor and a good system that you are learning.

I'd never heard of the system before. Checking with Google, I copied this infor from http://www.koryu-uchinadi.com/Default%202a.htm . Apparently if was founded by Pat McCarthy. What is Koryu Uchinadi ®? Koryu Uchinadi® is a personal collection & modern interpretation of those fragmented Qing Period (1644-1911) Fujian Chinese-based quanfa practices, once described as karate-jutsu, haphazardly introduced & secretly cultivated in Okinawa during the later part of the old Ryukyu Kingdom, later influenced by Japanese culture. Systematized into a cohesive & application-based study, this signature delivery system is the result of my personal analyses of those principal teachings of karate pioneers: Kojo Taite (1837-1917) Aragaki Seisho (1840-1920) Xie Zhongxiang (1852-1930) Higashionna Kanryo (1853-1917) Hanashiro Chomo (1869-1945) Motobu Choki (1871-1944) Zhou Zhihe (1874-1926) Wu Xianhui (1886-1940) Tang Daiji (1887-1937) Kiyoda Juhatsu (1886-1967) Miao Xing (1881-1939) Oshiro Chojo (1887-1935) Richard Kim (1919-2001) and Kinjo Hiroshi (1919). Moreover, Koryu Uchinadi® is also taught as a provocative alternative to conventional methods of physical fitness and stress management. Learning how to respond dispassionately to unwarranted aggression requires self-empowerment. Such training promotes an inner-calm and, where conflict exists, helps restore balance to personal and professional relationships. Koryu Uchinadi® is a non-competitive, totally application-based defensive practice, punctuated with moral philosophy and highlighted by introspective teaching as a comprehensive single study.

Dang bud.,..I don't know where you're getting all this info from, but you're nailing it right on the nose! Not wanting to highjack the thread here, but yes, in the early stages of shorinryu training, it gives every indication that it is a hard system. But after just a few months, you should see it start to transition to a much softer way. This is usually just because the body is getting used to the way that we do things. I've never really understood why shorinryu was considered a hard system, because it certainly isn't IMHO.

*****Making mental note to cancel my email to Australian Police*****

delta1...I'm not saying put laws or rules on schools...but rather the schools or associations themselves take a look at how rediculious they look in the eyes of the majority of other martial artists, and the public in general, when a 6-10 year old is walking around wearing a BB. Anyway, that's how I see it. I knew a guy that pronmoted a 6 year old to BB for crying out loud. Nobody can EVER convince me a child has the knowledge, experience and maturity to do what a BB...to me...represents. This is the criteria I use to determine if a person is ready to receive his black belt from me: 1. Does the student possess the knowledge and skills to teach everything he/she knows to another person? Essentially, I feel a black belt should be able to pass on the knowledge they possess. 2. Do I believe the student is capable of successfully handle and "average" confrontation on the street? 3. Does the student possess the maturity, attitude and experience to handle the responsibility of wearing a BB? 4. Has the student demonstrated through attendence, effort and attitude in class that they deserve a black belt? There are others, but I have a date to get ready for. I'm sure you get the idea. A kid just isn't going to have the maturity, experience, reflexes, strength or thought processes (ex-elementary teacher here) to handle what I believe a wearer of a black belt represents.

I don't see it written anywhere from the thread author that says anything about "controls" or "laws" governing this. Just a simple "(I) think that the Martial Art community should start a age limit". I, for one, agree with it, and feel that no one under the age of 16 has the maturity, regardless of the system, to be what I personally feel a black belt represents. And yes of course, everybody has their views of what a black belt represents. I respect your opinions, as I hope you respect mine. Simple....don't complicate the thread guys.

HEAR, HEAR!!! I'll vote for that one! Uhhhh...where do I vote?

I believe you should recommend to your instructor that he might have a terminal case of rectalcranialinvertus, and seek the advice of a physician immediately. I suppose you should define what you mean by "old" in a martial arts context? 50? 60? 70? 80? Just to site an example, the late OSensei Soken Hohan of Okinawa, one of the greatest Masters of the arts in the 20th century (let's not start arguing about this, OK?) was 93 when he died. As I understand from students of his that I have worked with, OSensei taught his classes personally, and was able to bounce American servicemen (Navy & Marines in TOP physical condition) and his own Okinawan students around with ease...right into his late 80's before he retired. Or are you talking about people in their 90's + ?

A blood test at a martial arts tournament? Whoa...that's a bit weird sounding for this guy. And if a guy's stupid enough to be high at a tournament, he's probably not going to win anyway. "Hey man..what you want to go and try to hit me for? Chill dude..have a toke."

I've thrown knives and axes at targets for years. Sure, tossing knives at trees and targets is one thing, but get the adrenaline flowing, and a moving target that just might also be throwing things (rocks, knives, bullets) at you...that's an entirely different ball game. And the farther away your target is, the harder it is to throw accurately. 5', 10'...20'+? The farther away it is, the less accurate it will be. Hitting the cranium with a knife is a long shot at best, even from a close distance. Also, unless the person has his back to you, he will see you chamber yoru throw and make an attempt to avoid it. Again, the farther away from you he is, the easier it will be to avoid. And then you've lost your weapon, and possibly any advantage you might have had against a more skilled opponent. Oh heck, I never take offense to people speaking their opinions ... especially if they agree with me! I'm not talking about modernizing kobudo here. But the study of traditional kobudo easily flows into the useage of everyday objects to use as weapons. That's what I meant.

That's a good point on the short Okinawan Masters using a 6' bo...I hadn't thought of that. I'd always heard a rule of thumb was head height, which would be 6'6" (198cm) for me...but I use a standard 6 footer. If I used a jo measured brom my armpit, it woudl be around 5'6" or so...dang near a full bo for most people! lol I need to cut some height off my legs...just to darn tall for my own good!

You're correct on the bo, but I'm not aware of a specific height on the jo. As far as I know, it's around 4' tall. I see no problem with shorter if you want to, but would recommend staying arounbd the 4' range.

Hanshi Kenneth Penland, 8th Dan I believe, is in Hesperia...is that close to LA? He's a student of Sensei Hohan Soken, Fuse Kise and Yuichi Kuda's. I haven't met Sensei Penland yet, but I understand he's very good.

*shaking my head here in disbelief* Anybody can be beat..period. Expecially if you've seen them fight (and they you of course). You need to go into the fight with a game plan . The fake kick on your part is the best advice, and learn to use your hands. Yes, legs have more reach, but hands are faster and more versatile than feet are, and I'll wager less expected by your instructor when fighting you. Learn to use angles of attack also. Not just straight back..and straight forward. Angle...angle...angle!!! Straight lines are to predictable and easy to track.

I'm thinking tommarker needs to rename himself as "Mom". MaMarker...that would be a good one! *ducking*

It sounds like you've already giot the basic boxing knmowledge. Practice will give you the skills. However, and this is just an observation and question on my part, it doesn't sound like you and those other Cho Dans are real satisfied with your training and what you are learning from TSD. Since you live in a populous area where nearly every type of martial art on the planet is no doubt represented (and some that are no doubt OFF of this planet ), have you considered switching to a martial art that is more to your liking and includes what you feel you are lacking in TSD? It would make sense to me that if I lived in an area where just about anything is available within a 10 mile radius (or less) of where I lived, then I would find an art that was teaching me what I wanted to learn, not feeling I was lacking in some aspect and searching for a secondary supplement to my training. If I wasn't satisfied with a particular school/art/instructor, I'd go to the other one across the street...or down the block. What is sounds like to me is that you and your friends need to seek out and join a system that uses their hands as much as they use their feet. A Japanese/Okinawan system would fill the bill nicely, or a multitude of "American" karate systems that are out there. ***donning my Mr. Spock ears*** It seems logical to me.

Yeah...it's tough getting old bud. Sometime I forget what I'm saying right in the middle ....... uhhhh ...... what was I saying? Oh yeah...cups! I prefer the big soup mugs myself.

Ahhhhh...the infamous "Zen-Meeting" technique. A difficult form of meditation to master (without getting caught or snoring).

Where's my metric converter when I need it? Anyway, the jo is generally around 4' long, as opposed to a bo that is generally 6' long. somebody want to translate that to "cm" for me please?

I chose Dual Style/System. However, I consider what I do a single system..technically, karate and kobudo are two seperate systems with rank for each.

ahhhhh.....well, you got me on that one bud. Swords are a different weapon that I hadn't considered. Yes, starting with a boken would be preferable.