Tempest

I'm a little over 2 hours away from Manhattan. Darn. I was going to point you to some friends of mine who are Fiorists up that way.

I love that I have been absent from these forums, mostly practicing and teaching HEMA, and come back to find folks have been reading and practicing HEMA. That is awesome! Zaine, your profile shows you are in the Dallas area. I recently relocated there myself. Bushido_Man, I seem to recall that you are in Kansas. I am CERTAIN I have asked this before, but are you anywhere near Manhattan?

I think that basic attack/defense drills are certainly worth doing. That said, they should probably look more like this: Than like this: That second video was... not good. And did not show practical techniques or a good way to learn striking at even a basic level.

Hmm. If you are not able to commit to a traditional BJJ gym, have you considered a competitive Judo school? Or an MMA school with a decent wrestling program? There are a variety of options available. However, if you insist that you must do this alone, here are some things you will need: 1. Training partners. You cannot learn to grapple without bodies, particularly resisting bodies. 2. Space. Preferably space covered in mats. You won't WANT to grapple for very long without these. 3. A decent curriculum to learn the fundamentals from. My recommendation for beginners is The Gracie Combatives program supplemented by a Grapplers Guide membership. 4. Good Luck. Let us know how it goes for you.

I can bring a ton of loaners. As for how it would work, well first we would need a date and a location. After that, I, and possibly one of our other longsword instructors, would come up. We would bring loaner swords, mostly polymers but some steel, some copies of books that are good to look in to, and other kit that would be good have to play with. We would teach some classes, show the equipment, and be available for discussions on getting a study group started, finding sources to work from, and contacting the wider community. All with the intent of, hopefully, kick starting a local group for you to play with.

I've got some of the reproduced fechtbuchs. Love them. Absolutely love them. If I had a place to train around here, I'd do it. Well, if you ever get down to Wichita, look up a guy named Robert Trudeau. He is a former training partner of mine. Also look up a guy named Chris Holzman, probably the best military saber guy I have ever known. I am unaware of any HEMA specific groups in Hays, but also look in to your local SCA group. At the very least you will find sparring partners there. No HEMA in Hays, and we used to have and SCA group, and we sparred often, but it all folded up, and the nearest group that actually met to do things was abuut an hour and a half drive away. I haven't checked the ARMA website lately, but I need to, to see if there are any new books they are recommending. Jesus. I just looked it up. You are FAR from everything out there in Hays. The nearest school to you that I am aware of is over in Manhattan and that is what like 2 - 2.5 hours away? If you are interested, we could arrange to do a seminar or event for you and whoever you like locally. Try and get something up and running.

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Actually, that is the very first reason why I left my karate club, I was sick of its turning direction to competitions and nothing else. Probably because I'm a beginner in judo, everything is new and seems amusing to me, but I am afraid I will feel the same after some years. And it seems not many new techniques are being introduced at the same speed as old techniques are removed. I am not very familiar with sports judo-I do not watch videos very often, but I hope sparring in judo will not turn into sparring in karate, in which only a few techniques (like kizami zuki and ura mawashi geri) are used. Ok, so something you should be aware of in actual fighting. Both sparring and competition, and as a direct result, serious self defense. What works, works. People use what is effective for them. One of the reasons to DO alive training such as randori and shiai is to learn what is really effective against an intelligently resisting opponent. One of the best Judoka to ever live, Toshihiko Koga, used one throw most of the time. He KNEW the others, could defend against them, and could and did use them as set ups, but his weapon was Ippon Seoi-nage. Before you can worry about what the rules restrict or why, hint it's a lot more complicated than your Sensei is telling you, you first need to develop a weapon that is effective for you in the rule set you are going to be playing in.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess. Sure in a grappling context I agree- however I’m speaking mostly of a fighting situation as opposed to grappling only Even so. As long as your BJJ has included some live training of striking defense, you only have to be better than the person who is in your guard. Although strikes do give them more options, remember that they also expose things as well. I think we have talked before about the idea that a good guard is a dangerous guard. If, either in a fight or a grappling situation, your opponent feels he can just sit in your guard you are not being active enough off your back. Every one of those punches should be potentially exposing an arm-lock or a back take. But, in order to make that a thing, you have to put the gloves on and train your guard against strikes sometimes. And many BJJ schools don't do that. Well in a nutshell the ability to have an effective guard when strikes are involved is dependant on your ability to keep his posture broken (or his inability to get it...). Not everyone in bjj understands the concept of keeping posture broken as many prefer the double wrist control because it prevents grips and makes passing difficult. We’re going on quite an tangent here speaking about people with a developed guard game. Someone who’s learning their grappling at a non grappling school is going to be far below the grade in comparison and therefore should not be jumping guard in a fight And someone who is learning their grappling AT a grappling school, when going against a non-grappler, won't need to. Pulling guard is very much an artifact of one type of grappler fighting another with a different skill-set. You pull guard against a better wrestler, not against your idiot friend who took that Krav class that one time. In a grappling context, yes- it’s perfectly normal and common. If I can put this convo into context I’ll describe the particular video I saw. It was a reputable striking style with a name instructor that I don’t want to say less I be accused of trashing said style. So the scenario starts off with strikes as the guy narrates it. Speaking from the perspective of the striker: “My opponent gets too close and clinches, where I’m able to pull guard” Followed by the guy jumping, not just pulling- full guard from a neutral over/under clinch. Imagine May weather training for an mma fight with this strategy- thats what I mean when I say they’re a little “off” with their strategy Well, without the underlying fundamentals that make that strategy a viable one, which would by necessity be conveyed only through long hours of grappling training, they are essentially conceding a critical advantage and possibly the whole fight to their opponent. But if idiots want to idiot, not much we can do to stop them. Other than demonstrate why almost every current UFC champion is a very high level wrestler.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess. Sure in a grappling context I agree- however I’m speaking mostly of a fighting situation as opposed to grappling only Even so. As long as your BJJ has included some live training of striking defense, you only have to be better than the person who is in your guard. Although strikes do give them more options, remember that they also expose things as well. I think we have talked before about the idea that a good guard is a dangerous guard. If, either in a fight or a grappling situation, your opponent feels he can just sit in your guard you are not being active enough off your back. Every one of those punches should be potentially exposing an arm-lock or a back take. But, in order to make that a thing, you have to put the gloves on and train your guard against strikes sometimes. And many BJJ schools don't do that. Well in a nutshell the ability to have an effective guard when strikes are involved is dependant on your ability to keep his posture broken (or his inability to get it...). Not everyone in bjj understands the concept of keeping posture broken as many prefer the double wrist control because it prevents grips and makes passing difficult. We’re going on quite an tangent here speaking about people with a developed guard game. Someone who’s learning their grappling at a non grappling school is going to be far below the grade in comparison and therefore should not be jumping guard in a fight And someone who is learning their grappling AT a grappling school, when going against a non-grappler, won't need to. Pulling guard is very much an artifact of one type of grappler fighting another with a different skill-set. You pull guard against a better wrestler, not against your idiot friend who took that Krav class that one time.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess. Sure in a grappling context I agree- however I’m speaking mostly of a fighting situation as opposed to grappling only Even so. As long as your BJJ has included some live training of striking defense, you only have to be better than the person who is in your guard. Although strikes do give them more options, remember that they also expose things as well. I think we have talked before about the idea that a good guard is a dangerous guard. If, either in a fight or a grappling situation, your opponent feels he can just sit in your guard you are not being active enough off your back. Every one of those punches should be potentially exposing an arm-lock or a back take. But, in order to make that a thing, you have to put the gloves on and train your guard against strikes sometimes. And many BJJ schools don't do that.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess.

Yes it happens. You do sort of get used to it, and it is one of the reasons to continue to do so. However, and this is very important, one thing that can exacerbate this situation is if you are not keeping your neck supple and good head position throughout the rolls. This can cause increased dizziness from tension in the neck even if you manage to avoid your head contacting the mat. Which you should. So try to focus on those 2 things: 1. Don't let your head contact the mat during rolls. 2. Keep your neck supple rather than stiff to reduce tension and thus reduce likely dizziness. After a couple of years of doing this and if you are confident that you are doing it correctly, and the issue persists, talk to your doctor about it. You not thinking you have a vertigo issue or a vaso-vagal issue or some other thing that can cause problems like this does not mean it is so. Good luck, and I hope the issue clears up.

They don't. The applications contained within the Kata do. You train to deal with every possible attack method. I think the problem is Modern Karate's interpretation of the Kata. Stuck on basics. "This is the way we punch". The problem is there is no evolution to the art. No Yudansha should be punching the way they did when they were Mudansha. No Kodansha punches like they did when they were Yudansha. You evolve as you learn and begin to understand your art and it's combative methodology. To say that a straight punch is the only way a Karateka will punch you in a fight is preposterous. To say that the only thing you will ever defend against and therefore the only thing your applications should focus on in training is a straight "Karate" punch is equally preposterous. The founders fought in life and death conflicts. Do you or anyone else here actually feel that the only lessons the founders passed down in which are contained in the Kata are just ways to deal with basics?? You're over simplifying it. "BAck to Basics" again. The Kata's applications are not created to deal with the most basic of attacks nor as popularly believed to deal with the untrained street thug, they are a compilation of techniques and applications that had been tried and tested in battle and had been proven to be effective. This means to deal with advanced means of attack from trained combatants. Yes there are applications to deal with the most common methods of attack (this even includes basic Kihon techniques) but that is not what it is restricted to as you are pointing out. If this is the way that you train in Kata, forgive me if this comes off judgmental, but you're doing it wrong. My point was that no one strikes one way no matter the circumstance. My point about a Boxer's jab is, you wouldn't throw a straight jab if you did not have a target to connect with. Instead you would adapt and alter the angle in order to connect. Karate is no different. To put an art into a neat little box of basic kihon and call it combat effective makes no sense and is false in it's premise. This is Modern Karate not the art that the founders handed down. You are describing an art altered to teach school children not one designed for combat. The art that the founders created was specifically for combat. The mere suggestion that they would limit the applications and principles to basics is missing the point entirely. I understand that some train in what they think are the founders applications but are in actuality training in what I would call literal interpretation. In this case yes you only use the basic Kihon of reverse punch, front kicks and the like and you only defend against the like. This is NOT what the Kata represents nor the lessons that it contains. You know, one of these days we are gonna have to get together and do some training so you can show me what you are on about with all of this. I say that because while everything you SAY sounds great, I have never experienced ANY of it in a Karate dojo that I have been in. I believe that you train and teach your students the way you describe, but it is not at ALL common in Karate to train those kinds of applications at all. And even less so to train them in an alive manner to the point where they can be executed in a fight against an intelligently resisting opponent. Do you have any videos of your students training or sparring that I could see? Or of them competing? Because it seems like if I could have trained with you, I might not have ever left Karate in the first place.

Tempest, in a fight, you are correct. A high school (or especially collegiate wrestler) probably has an advantage over a karateka. Why? Part of the reason is that those are competitive combat sports where you have to be an extremely good athlete in the first place to make the team (especially college). These wrestlers train, rather brutally, all the time and compete all the time. Wrestlers train like this because it is what is required, but it isn't the brutality of the training, although that helps. Judoka and Jiujiteros are also more prepared for a fight than a typical Karateka, despite in some cases not training as hard. But on the street you don’t know what they will face. It really doesn’t matter what you train them for as long as you are honest about it. But know that a false sense of confidence without alive training methods is a recipe for disaster for those students. So you are a Catch Wrestler? Cool. Where did you learn from? That is not a common style. Did you ever study BJJ anywhere as well? If you have been through these competitions, you should know the value of aliveness in training. Trying to learn to deal with violence without that athletic component and without that alive training method is like trying to learn to shoot for the first time by balancing on one leg and closing your eyes because you saw a trick shooter do that once. There are fundamental fighting skills you MUST have, and if you lack them, then you must train in an alive manner in order to acquire them. Part of the issue is most people have no idea that they lack them because they have never been in a fight. So, you just said that you could not beat them using your Karate when there was nothing important at stake, but then tried to say that if we raise the stakes you could win a fight you would have lost by escalating the level of violence. It doesn’t take any training to poke someone in the eye. And the wrestler will be in a much better position to do that after they take you down. And your knife has nothing to do with Karate or martial arts as a self defense proposal at all, as now we are getting in to armed conflict, which is a whole other kettle of fish. A dirty trick is not a substitute for fundamental fighting skills. It is not going to reliably save you. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been poked in the eye during training. It’s annoying, but it is just that, an annoyance. No one is going to let you get into the position to jdo one of those deep eye gouges in a fight unless you know how to control the clinch and defend the take-down well enough to get into that position. And that requires alive training of just that position.

You know, I don't really know much about Karate, which is why I tend to stay out of these threads, but ya'll have strayed from discussing applications of Karate bunkai, which I know little to nothing about, in to discussing self-defense and fighting, which I DO know something about. Only thing is, there seems to be some misconceptions going around about these things. For one thing, there seems to be a lot of different ideas about what self defense IS going around here, versus what we are discussing, which is not self defense per se, but is in fact use of violence to stop violence. Self defense is a legal term related to avoiding the legal consequences of using force on another person by showing it was justified and necessary at the time. Unless you are being attacked by a rambunctious child, a violent confrontation will almost inevitably devolve in to a fight unless you get lucky or catch the other guy off guard. Neither of those things is conducive to self defense, because for it to BE self defense, they have to be attacking you, and most likely they caught you a little off guard or you would have avoided the confrontation. And if you were lucky you they would have picked someone else to attack. Now to me, the idea that people think that they can pull off a technique against an actively resistant opponent when their life is on the line, when they haven't done it even when their was nothing on the line, is laughable. I would be willing to bet on a high school/collegiate wrestler over ANYONE who trains the way that OneKick describes, or most of what FatCobra describes until he mentions the sparring bit at the end, in ANY sort of violent confrontation. Once again, I will spam this till I am blue in the...fingers? The metaphor doesn't really work here, but you get it. http://mattthornton.org/why-aliveness/ http://mattthornton.org/its-aliveness-still/

Hmm, in Judo we consider about 10k reps enough to have it down for competition readiness. But not all of those reps should be static. Once you can perform the movement consistently in a static environment, the environment should become more and more dynamic, working your way up to full resistance and the chaos of actual competition. I don't know if that is the best way. But I do know that it is the way that Judo, BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, Wrestling, Etc all do it. The number of reps you need to be comfortable doing the movement static will vary from person to person based on your athletic ability, understanding, and how picky your instructor is. I will never NOT link these 2 articles that apply to this sort of thing: http://mattthornton.org/why-aliveness/ http://mattthornton.org/its-aliveness-still/

That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle. I think if anyone ever actually used a scythe in battle, it would have been because it was the only thing handy when they were caught off guard. It would be better than nothing. But there were very very many better choices. I'd be interested to read of any historical record of the scythe being used as a weapon of choice, either for its offensive use or its psychological impact. With regard to the psychological factor of causing terror, I can't help but wonder if this is myth in the same way as the vikings with their horned helmets that they didn't actually have. Ie, a great thing for theatrical effect but absolutely no place in historical warfare. Since you asked... http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair The scythe... does have it's use, however it would not be my first choice of weapons. I must be missing something obvious, but I can't see where it mentions the use of the scythe in battle. There is a section in Mair's book about the use of the scythe, and several other "peasant weapons" from German history. There are several techniques for the weapon. And the sickle is described separately.

That is true and a fair point. In my martial arts fiction phase I got obsessed with scythe. In reality people did fight with scythe but there was never a school or a style that catered to scythe techniques. It was more of an improvised effort by eastern European peasants looking to defend their land and freedom. Although the world of anime has glorified scythe wielders to a great degree. The scythe would make a rubbish weapon. They are heavy and unbalanced and unless you're attacking the enemy's ankles while he stands still, they'd be very awkward to use offensively. I know this because I've used an old fashioned scythe many times. No doubt better than nothing as a weapon, but there were many peasant farming tools that make vastly better improvised weapons. One of the main weapons of choice in medieval England was the bill. It's basically a massive heavy blade with a hook on one side, mounted to the end of a long stick. It's agricultural use is for managing hedges and for cutting fruit from trees, but it is also naturally very offensive, being a big stick with a heavy blade. It was used in combat both as a staff and as a spear. The hook also proved useful for dragging soldiers from their horses. It was so popular as a weapon that for a while, it was a legal requirement for all boys over the age of 13 to attend their village green or square every Sunday to practice 'bill drill', which I guess could be approximated to the Japanese concept of kata. The scythe is rubbish due to its crooked handle but the main advantage was the fact that it caused terror . I am not being comical either, the scythe really messes people up psychologically speaking. That being said the ultimate scythe is a halberd that has a scythe handle. I think if anyone ever actually used a scythe in battle, it would have been because it was the only thing handy when they were caught off guard. It would be better than nothing. But there were very very many better choices. I'd be interested to read of any historical record of the scythe being used as a weapon of choice, either for its offensive use or its psychological impact. With regard to the psychological factor of causing terror, I can't help but wonder if this is myth in the same way as the vikings with their horned helmets that they didn't actually have. Ie, a great thing for theatrical effect but absolutely no place in historical warfare. Since you asked... http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair The scythe... does have it's use, however it would not be my first choice of weapons.

I have been training for... I don't know how many years off and on. But CONSISTENTLY for about 9-10 years. I don't KNOW anything for sure. But I have come up with a few things I BELIEVE to be true and that have stood the test of time and evidence. The first one and probably the most important, is aliveness. I have posted about that elsewhere, mostly copying Matt Thorton's work on the subject, but the longer I train, the more confirmation bias as well as observed evidence leads me to conclude he is correct. Aliveness is key. It is the foundation of every good martial art and is the defining test for if you HAVE a good martial art. And mostly, the more aliveness, the better. The second thing I believe and have evidence for but can't really claim to KNOW is that attributes, delivery systems and experience and understanding of an operational environment are more important than techniques. I don't know that these things are true, but I do believe them and have evidence to support that belief.

The rule for weapons is that anything light enough to lift and heavy/hard enough to do damage is a weapon. I am... unfamiliar with the legal situation regarding weapons in the UK, HOWEVER, I DO know there are a number of highly regarded HEMA instructors there. Practice at a school that competes regularly. Even if you don't want to, it will make you better. Learn to handle weapons under the stress of sparring and competition. THEN work on the idea of adding improv to it. I think you will find that the improv is not that difficult. It's learning judgement, distance, time and place that is hard.

Marcus Aurelius - Great stoic author. Meditations is a must read for any serious martial artist trying to live in a modern american society.

I'm a big fan of hard shell golf cases for carrying weapons. Seem to work really well for most of us in the HEMA/Sword community. Couple of things though if you are going to fly with it. 1. Pack it TIGHT. It WILL be handled roughly and possible opened and searched. 2. CLEARLY mark it sporting goods. This helps lower the paranoia level of airport security people seeing it on an X-ray machine.

You people and your thought provoking questions... Ok, so there is a lot to unpack here in what seems to be a simple question, however to begin to understand an answer it's important to also understand what is meant be combat: Once again my friend the dictionary comes through in the clutch com·bat noun noun: combat; plural noun: combats ˈkämˌbat/Submit 1. fighting between armed forces. "men killed in combat" synonyms: battle, fighting, action, hostilities, conflict, war, warfare; deathmatch "he was killed in combat" 2. nonviolent conflict or opposition. "intellectual combat" Now, with this said, I don't think we are going to be looking at "intellectual combat". As a result, the definition of "combat" is a struggle between armed forces. Our bodies are most certainly NOT built for that. In point of fact, most of our weapons are designed specifically to kill OUR bodies. Now, if you ask a different question: What kind of adaptations for fighting DO we have? Now that has a more interesting answer. Most of our adaptations for fighting involve social violence. Thick foreheads to absorb overhand blows. Large chest and back muscles. Lots of little things like that which really are indicative of tribal strengthening social violence. That is, violence between members of the same group regarding status or territory, not necessarily intended to be lethal. However, when we practice asocial violence, that is, combat, killing, or hunting for food, then we tend to use tools. Starting with rock and the sharpened stick and evolving to the Atom Bomb, when men really want to kill something, they do so in a way that leaves no question and regards the idea of a natural body being "built for it" as foolishness. Look at the wear and tear and damage to the body that military veterans have gone through for an example.

You mean KF is old enough to play seniors now ehh? Armbars for everyone!!! In all seriousness, happy birthday to us as a community.