bushido_man96

Admittedly I only skim read it right now but this is a pretty comprehensive break down of the two methods and suggested better power generation from the full twist https://expertboxing.com/horizontal-punches-vs-vertical-punches Interestingly they make a comment towards the end about vertical Vs horizontal in relation to your body (your torso) or in relation to the ground and I guess your opponents body. I guess you have to consider the punch from both a mechanics point of view for the puncher, but also how the fist is orientated to the opponent. Thanks for sharing that, Danielle. Really good info, both in the article and the video presented. I especially like how he talked about the directions the punches were going as well as the intended target, and how that augments what type of punch gets use. There seemed to be a split at the chest and abdomen, where above it seemed to be more horizontal, and below seemed to be more vertical. He also talks quite a bit about the importance of the elbow position in regards to punching, and less so about the orientation of the fist; the location of the elbow dictates the orientation of the fist. Which is a good point. He also spoke a little bit about which knuckles to strike with, but I wonder, especially in Boxing today, with the use of the gloves, how often they truly worry about the orientation of the knuckles when punching. If anyone with Boxing experience could lend some experience in this aspect, that would be great. This is a good question. When it comes to palm heel strikes, I find good power in turning it over to horizontal, but this strike is mainly aimed at the chin or face. Otherwise, it's pretty limited. I have found that I can get a palm heel into different angles if I make it more vertical. Coming "over the top" in a hooking motion, turning over to the thumb down position is quite nice. Spear hand techniques tend to be more target dependent. To the torso, I'm looking vertical. Throat or face, horizontal.

Thank you for sharing this with us. It's good to see you back! I'd be interested in seeing both the footwork and the hand motions in application. The hand motions look like some of the sticking hands exercises you've shown in the past.

That's too bad, Danielle. I'm really hoping that doesn't happen to us again, but I'm afraid that it will.

Can I find this on YouTube?

Bob, I agree that the use of the hips in the punching motion is paramount in power development, regardless of the orientation of the fist. When I teach punching mechanics, I teach that the power comes from the floor, and not from the arms. Everything starts with the drive from the floor, up through the hips, then into the shoulders and out through the arms. Do you ever notice when teaching, Bob, especially early on in a practitioner's journey, a tendency to over-rotate the final position of the elbow in a horizontal punch? Do you notice this happen later on, even with more experienced practitioners, especially if the student gets to moving fast in sparring, any occurrences of the elbow rotation?

I don't believe any "great" capabilities are bestowed on individuals who practice these things. I'm not convinced that someone who practices these specialties necessarily increases their life span or overall quality of life any more than doing any other physical activity to get into and stay in good shape. I'm not saying that they aren't beneficial to do, if activities like these are in one's wheelhouse. These activities, like so many, appeal to some more than others, and like many activities, one is likely to get out of it what one puts into it.

11/6/2020 MA Training TKD Forms: Spent about 30 minutes doing the colored belt forms, white up to skunk belt with one of the 2nd dans who happened to be practicing at the gym during some open floor time. Then I sat in the sauna for about 10 minutes. Kendall is working on dropping some weight for the wrestling season, so I'm taking him to the gym so he can do some cardio/HIIT work. He did some walk/running work on the treadmill for about a half hour and then went to the sauna. 11/7/2020 Cardio: Walked on a treadmill for 20 minutes, then did rowing for 5 minutes. Kendall did this as well, but he did walk/run intervals on the treadmill. 11/8/2020 Cardio: 20 minutes of walking on a treadmill while Kendall did walk/run intervals. 11/9/2020 Strength Training Squats: 45x5, 135x5, 155x3, 185x5, 185x5, 185x5. Press: 45x5x2, 65x5, 85x5, 85x5, 85x5. This was a fun day at the gym, mainly because I had both my boys working out there with me. Kendall is still sticking with cardio/HIIT stuff until the end of this week, so he wasn't lifting. But Kenneth got back under the bar today, so I had a training partner. I really enjoyed the time.

What a milestone! Congrats, Bob, and we look forward to so many more!

That's pretty cool. We started watching it on a trip, but haven't got a chance to finish it yet. Baritsu has a pretty cool history in England, and it's a lot of fun to read about.

I do recall you talking about those maxims several times here, Bob. It does seem to have quite a bit in common with the OODA loop.

I haven't noticed that there is a difference in reach between vertical and horizontal punches, especially straight punches. And if there is any, it seems to be negligible in my experience. I would love to seem some kind of study on how much difference in power there is between a vertical punch and a horizontal (straight) punch.

I came across this article at a strength training website that I like to frequent, and thought it was an interesting approach describing the OODA loop in regards to coaching: The Coach's Cue - Breaking the OODA Loop As instructors, I think the vase majority of us deal with this in our teachings quite often, but how often do you as an instructor actually refer to this concept, and then address it in class?

It doesn't need to be a high hop, but the idea is to quickly change stance while the opponent is preoccupied with your hand work, so you can do a (rear) roundhouse kick with the foot formerly in the front. Quickly getting my center of gravity high enough to do that switch is where my challenge is. Ok, that makes sense. We do that from time to time, in what we refer to as a "switch-foot round kick." If you are in a fairly natural and well-balanced fighting stance, you should be able to execute a fairly quick stance switch, and then be able to follow up with the kick. We'll also do it as a "switch-foot round kick," or I like to call it a "switch kick." But that is when I kick with the back foot during the switch. I'll also do this with spin side kicks. My main focus is in trying to keep my feet as close the ground as possible when I switch, making the movement as fast as possible.

I have played around with rotating the fist over, to the thumb down position, mostly on the bag, but have not done it much in sparring that I can recall. In self-defense, I think that can be quite useful in coming over the top of another hand attack to get to the opponent's head. Of course, there are other variations of the punches, like the upset/uppercut style punches, which are mainly upside-down horizontal punches. Danielle, do you notice any structural difference when making contact with a vertical punch as compared to a horizontal punch? Especially when punching a heavy or standing bag?

When you do the hop in your combination, does it have to be an actual jump, or can it be more of switch-foot motion that is lower to the ground?

I was just thinking about this the other day, and thought it might make for some interesting conversation. Vertical punches vs horizontal punches, how and when we use them, and which we prefer and why? Most of the punching done in my TKD forms are horizontal in nature, with that full rotation that is classically applied to TKD and a lot of Karate punches. There are some vertical punches in my forms, but most of those are done as a twin punching technique with both hands at the same time. Not really any single, vertical punches. I did do some in my ATA TKD forms, though. I think that rotating the wrist completely over in the horizontal punching method can at times lead to the elbow flaring out a bit more than when vertical punching. However, with vertical punching, the lack of the wrist turning seems to take a little off the punch, at least to me. What I've done more recently, especially when hitting the heavy bag, is rotate my hand about halfway between horizontal and vertical, to about 45 degrees. I still notice the little extra from the rotation, and feel it is more efficient than a complete rotation to horizontal. Has anyone else experimented with this? Do you have a preference in the orientation of the fist when you punch?

Welcome to KF! I see you also list MCMAP in your styles. I'd love to hear about that, too!

That's part of the 101 ways to use Electric Tape; been using it for quite a very long time. I STILL get a smile when I apply it to a student obi because they've that puzzled look all over their face..."What's Sensei doing?!?!?!?!?"...priceless. Years ago, one of my instructors used a three-stripe system with electrical tape. First one showed the student had the basics of the rank down; second showed they knew the form; third showed they knew the one-steps. If the student had all three stripes, the instructor knew they were ready to test.

Sounds to me like you assumed the way your previous dojo did things was going to be similar. Best to always ask the instructor how to handle these "what if" scenarios.

Congrats, Dmitriy!

10/28/2020 MA Training TKD Class: 6:30 - 7:30 pm. T-shirt class, consisting of Kicking Stations. I got through 6 stations, which I felt pretty good about. FL side kicks, FL round kicks, BL side kicks, repeat kicking combos, axe kicks, and crescent/hook kicks were the stations. Each station had 5 different kicks to do, doing 5 kicks on each leg (and the combos would be double the number of kicks). 350 kicks, if I count right. Finished with a nice stretch.

I do like the idea of using stripes as "markers" of what the student has done and what they need to do. It makes it easy for an instructor to glance at his students and know what they need to focus on.

As I get older, I find that I'd much rather train indoors than out. Especially right now, as winter has pretty much arrived in west-central Kansas.

I'd say if a person is inclined to learn a few systems at a time, then do it. Take your time, and grade when you feel you are capable of doing so in each. I look at it this way: in school, we never spend time learning one subject until we are good at it, and then move onto the next. We spend time on languages, and math, and social studies/history, etc. We tend to do alright with that. I think it is entirely possible to do with physical training, as well. How many kids play different sports throughout the year without any issues? Plenty. I would caution that when learning more than one style that it would be beneficial for the two styles to have as little crossover as possible. For instance, learning TKD and Tang Soo Do is probably more detrimental than it is helpful. But learning one of these styles along side Judo or BJJ or Wrestling would be more beneficial, as you're covering two distinctly different aspects of fighting. Not that you couldn't spend time learning both TKD and TSD, but the likelihood of mixing up miniscule differences between the two is high, thus frustrating both instructors. But, you could try it. I just think it would be a better use of your time to go with a stand-up style and a ground style. I think each instructor varies on their stance in regards to this. Some instructors are very possessive of their students, and would like for them to instead of doing 2 days a week to two different styles, would rather they spend 4 days a week with them. Other instructors are insecure to the point that the student may find the favor the other style, and fear losing the student. I see why an instructor could feel that way (be it right or wrong). I know my previous instructor was not a fan of it. However, he is not around right now, and I feel kind of like I'm in instructor limbo. I view the current CI at our school more as a peer than an instructor. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or the inclination to put into training in another style right now, so its a moot point for me.

Congrats!