bushido_man96

Welcome aboard!

Welcome to the Forums, Brutus!

Welcome to KF!

I see this a lot. "So many of them" equals how many of the ones you know of in your area, though? You admit you've seen one. Have you been to or checked all of the TKD schools in your area? What about Karate schools practicing XMA forms and weapons? Would they fall under that category, as well?

Keeping this in mind, do you think it is possible for Shotokan schools to adapt to do some of the things that someone like Lyota Machida has done over the course of his training to keep with the spirit of Shotokan, as well as adapt to MMA?

I have to throw in my 2 cents here. This is an especially irksome issue for me. It appears that eveyone likes to "point west" when it comes to the watering down of styles. I don't think this is the case. Many westerners that brought an MA back, or start their own schools, are doing so under the premises taught to them by their eastern counterparts. They use ideas given to them by their eastern counterparts. If one wants to begin pointing to the watering down of arts like Karate, then I would have to say it has just as much to do with ideas from the east as it does from the west. It is true that western business models are a bit differnet than those in the east. You can't expect too many students to enroll in a class where they can expect to be beaten on for over an hour and a half per class, three nights per week. Not good business. Sure, you will probably end up with some good MAists there, physically, but likely not too many. Things have changed since the 50s and 60s, but overall, I think training has advanced and gotten better since that time. Likewise, the more people who get into something, get exposed to it, and go on to do their own thing with, you end up with some that aren't focusing on the same things the others are; it is possible to get less than stellar quality of instruction. And this is sad. But, all too often, the bad ones draw our focus, and then we assume there is more bad than good out there, when its just the bad that sticks out more.

Since you'll have a good base in a stand up style, I'd recommend getting into a grappling style of some kind, to help round out that area. It would be a good balance.

Its great to hear things are going well for you!

There are some books on agility you could look into that might give some ideas on training. Then, you can adapt the exercises to a Martial theme, and there you go. I've got a few on agility, but haven't been through them in a while. Like others have said, agility is about controlling your body position and movement while in motion, especially when interacting with outside forces. For example, football players when they are trying to fend off tackles. That's the kind of thing you want to think about.

Sitting down to watch a class or two is never a bad idea. You'll get a gist of what is expected, and what you can expect to do. You might even get to see some beginners in there, too. Or, it might appear to be something you don't want to be a part of, and go on your way, as well.

Pankration developed for a long time in ancient times, we've had 20 years. i'll bet they were more refined then than you imagine. You are probably right. I may have misled; I wasn't trying to make ancient Pankration appear to be a rudimentary style or anything like that. I just think that with today's training methods for both fighting and supplemental health, such as cardio and strength, that it is likely more refined as a style now. Just my thoughts, though.

Pankration, in the ancient Olympic sense, could be looked at as the first form of MMA competition. Hellenic Boxing and Wrestling were games before Pankration; it was basically a hybrid of the two. As for similarities and differences go, I'd say they would be limited more to the times they are/were done in. Probably some rules differences, to be certain. I think MMA today is more refined, just from the evolution of the style over the last 20 plus years.

Yes, good point, tg. An Aikidoka I trained with told me the same thing, and it is something that I noticed I really had to focus on more in Aikido then I have in TKD; being smooth. Good point.

Good points, tallgeese. I do think the fact that he was not expecting resistance like that made a difference. Overall, a lot to learn in this encounter.

With Martial Arts, it starts with identifying the movement you want to do faster, then focusing on it, breaking it down, and doing specific training to speed up the movement. I'll use a side kick as an example. There are 4 basic parts to this kick; chamber, extension, re-chamber, and return to the floor. Identifying these 4 sections, now I can focus on the first one, the chamber. I'll work on getting the knee up, and the leg into kicking position. Basically, now, I can focus on getting to this position until I feel comfortable with it, then move onto the next part, the kick. And so on. That would be the first stage of training. Once I feel comfortable with the kick, I can do different kicking drills to work the whole technique, or things like plyometrics or knee burst to work specific parts. That's it, in a nutshell. Identify the movement, focus on it, and then work it over and over. Building strength and flexibility along the way are also necessary to supplement the training. I hope that helps some. Let us know if you have other questions.

I can understand your feeling, being depressed about not being able to do something you used to be able to do. But I would urge you not to give up. Take up the challenge before you, and strive to be the best you can be. Try to figure out how to adapt to your condition, and attack it to overcome it. It would be a tough road, but one worth travelling.

The World Series is set: St. Louis Cardinals vs. Texas Rangers. Who you got, and in how many games? I think the Rangers get it this year, and lets just say we go the distance to 7 games.

Thanks for clearing that up, MP. Like I said, its been so long since I've seen it, I've forgotten which it was. Good stuff, though. If I ever get to see it again, my life might be complete. Not sure I could get the wife to sit through it with me, though...

A no-change does happen from time to time. My thoughts are that if there isn't a chance of a failure, then it isn't a test. Its just a formality. No one likes to fail, but it seems that our society is trying to pamper everyone so much by removing the chance to fail that no one knows how to deal with failure anymore.

That's great that you're doing this, Bob. I think its great for those in the organization to see the higher ups coming around to visit them, and really make the time for them. Kudos to you, Bob! When do you visit my school again....

10/17/2011 SL 5x5A Squats: warmup: 45x5x2, 135x5, 205x3, 225x2; work: 330x3x5 Bench press: warmup: 45x5x2, 135x5, 155x3, 175x2; work: 235x5,5,5,4,4 Barbell rows: warmup: 75x5x2, 95x3, 105x2; work: 165x5x5 Power clean and jerk: 165x4,5,5 Dips: 5x5 Stretch: standing/kneeling quads, seiza, front/twist/side bar stretch, toe touches, reverse hurdler, butterfly/glutes, seated knee hugs/back twists, chest/tris/bis.

Cayuga Karate: You've poured a lot of information into your post, especially in the differences between kata training and effective fighting. With that in mind, I quote you below: With this in mind, then does it ever make you wonder why to continue with kata when it has so little in common with effective fighting? Would you feel the time spend on kata could be better served in working on more effective fighting combination work, reaction training, etc? It seems to me that more and more of the lay person sees these things on their own. They watch a match on TV of the last MMA event, and then maybe see the local Karate school students doing their forms practice through the window walking down main street. They see the difference, and make their decision that way. Just some thoughts. Thanks for your post.

Thanks, Bob. Danielle, I do agree that most schools do overlap into a few of the models I have mentioned. But what I tried to do was look at what the majority of one of our classes focuses on, and went that route. Like I've mentioned, although we do Olympic style sparring, our school is far from being categorized into a Modern Sport-oriented school. Some schools with more class time than ours probably can shade more into each of the areas, though.

Very well written, and very informative. Thanks for sharing this!

The Muay Thai question has been pretty well answered. As for the JKD question, it can be tough to figure out if what an instructor teaches is related to what Lee actually taught. There are a couple of factions out there, and they both claim they are following Lee's precepts. And then there are some who latch onto JKD for name recognition, and don't really teach anything of it. Doing some research on the matter will help you decide what you are getting at a school.