bushido_man96

The sine wave didn't always exist, so some of General Choi's early students didn't experience it. I'm not sure when it really took off, but there is some literature out there that talks a lot about it, and how there were different levels of the sine wave throughout the evolution of TKD.

I like Chon Ji being about as simple as you can get. For beginners with sub-6 month training I think it's a nice basis for learning forms as you can take away 2 stances, 2 blocks and 1 attack from it. Maybe you could have introduced a front kick but I probably wouldn't have included a high kick like is seen in Songham 1. That is a little too much I think for people you are just introducing to balance and using their feet for things other than walking and running. But then again I'm a stickler for being technically correct right from the start. The front kick and side kick in Songham 1 don't have to be high section. Most black belts that demonstrate it, though, will likely be doing high kicks. I agree. Interestingly enough, we have an "extra form" called Bo Chung that we do at high orange belt level, and it looks a lot like Taikyoku Shodan. The only difference is that after the first three punches, we turn into back stance and middle block, followed by back leg front kick, land in front stance and punch with the right hand, then repeat to the other side. I will keep that clip handy for that segment... I agree that the side kick is awkward. However, I do like the idea of teaching it before a round kick, that way the student doesn't try to cheat by doing a round kick. But even then, with Songham 1, you have two stances (front and middle stances), two strikes (knife hand strike and punch), and two kicks (front kick and side kick). So, it stays pretty basic. Yes, very simple footwork, very basic.

You are right, they are worlds apart. Mainly, because TKD has evolved away from its Japanese roots to try to create its own identity. If you are looking for an application to the series in Songham 1, starting with the inner forearm block, its a side-on block that comes from the turn, because the attack would come from behind. Then, the side kick and knife hand strike finish. If you want to follow that line of thinking, that is. You also have to keep in mind that ATA forms weren't designed with any kind of hae sul or bunkai in mind. They were designed to allow the student to practice the moves that fall into the curriculum of the belt rank. That is one thing that the ATA did well in designing their forms; they made each form a bit more complex than the next, and you can see the advancement in technique development. Chon Ji, the way it is shown, has all the bounce movement because of the sine wave. They also changed the way some hand movements are chambered and delivered. However, I don't use sine wave, and most of my hand movements are done more like Karate hand movements, although some will differ. You are rights, TKD and TSD are very young styles. Most of the older Korean GMs that ended up starting these young Korean arts had come up through Shotokan or some other form of Karate in the Japanese universities that they attended during the Japanese occupation of Korea. They also wanted to re-create a national identity after the occupation, so their style of Karate began to change. So yes, there are differences in some of the moves. This was a very nice form, Kanku Dai. But I don't think it is a white belt level form.

Congrats, Canadian77!

I am curious as to what kind of standards or guidelines others use in regards to knowing if a student is ready to test for the next rank. Lets start at white belt, for example. What do you want to see before you move someone into testing for the next grade? Front stances formed properly with front knee bent and back leg straight on all of them? Do you look for a certain level of power to be present? Or do you just use the eyeball test to tell you if someone is ready to test or not? I guess what I am asking is if you use some set markers of improvement that you can see in techniques, or do you use an eyeball type of test that lets you see that someone is ready?

You make good points in regards to the kid here. I stay away from the bickering that happens online in stories like that.But, the instructor is also responsible to a degree of the child being in this position. I'd like to see clips of the kid, just to see how he looks doing technique and forms. I would also be curious to know how many kids this age this instructor has promoted to black belt rank.

Not sure what you mean here. He should be looking the way he is blocking. Its what I did in the past. The second clip is Chon Ji done with sine wave. That is a hallmark of the ITF way of doing the forms, and some out there are more exaggerated than that. In our style, we don't do the sine wave. Here is a better example of how we do it in our school: We do it with a bit more quickness, though, and focus on power through the hips.What are your concerns with the Pal Gwe form?

I am in very good company!

Yep, it gets easier as your body adjusts.

I am familiar with two different form sets of TKD; the ATA, where I attained a 2nd degree rank, and my current TTA, which uses the Chang On system of forms, or part of it, anyways. But I have had just a dabbling of experience with the WTF set of forms, and my dad years ago did TKD with the old Pal Gwe forms. So what I thought I would do was throw some links in here of the different forms sets, by the rank I know them as, and do a bit of comparing and see if we can generate discussion. So, lets begin at white belt: ATA Songham 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOoAQxFsdlE 18 moves, but in a straight line. Also includes two kicking techniques. TTA/ITF Chon Ji: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pXfgBadTvI 19 moves, in a + pattern. No kicks. I like the development of the blocking and turning in Chon Ji, but don't care for the lack of kicks. The ATA form introduces two kicks into their first form. ATA lacks sine wave, and although I do Chon Ji now, I don't use sine wave. Pal Gwe 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pXfgBadTvI 20 moves, with lots of inside to outside blocks, which is a block I don't see a lot of. They also have an upset knife hand strike, which isn't seen until higher forms in the other two form sets. Tae Guek 1: 20 moves, lots of "walking" stances, but with some kicks and turns.

Here's a post I saw on Facebook via Totally Taekwondo Magazine: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/403303/Ninja-Alec-Cross-Britain-s-young-black-belt-fighter He's 6 years old, and he started at 4 and a half, the article notes. I'm not sure if he should be labeled as a "fighter," but maybe he competes. I am curious if any of our UK members are familiar with the school or the instructor or not. I noticed the belt system that they used, and the colored belt curriculum matches ours. The black belt curriculum is different, though. In our school, we have different program we run for kids aged 5-7. Once they hit 7 or 8, we discuss moving them into the regular classes, so their journey towards black belt wouldn't start until then. The other thing that concerns me is the 8 weeks between each belt rank, which I admit is a concern I've had about our TKD school, as well. We usually test about every two months, but our instructor has called off our latest testing to give the students more time to prepare. If it was something I could change personally, I'd move to a three-month testing cycle at the least. I feel like that would free up more time in class to hit other subject matters, as well. At any rate, I thought this article was pertinent to this discussion, and thought I would drop it in here for some more discussion.

The UFC has announced a sponsorship with Reebok, which includes laying out an outfitting policy for its athletes: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/448913/UFC-announces-sponsorship-with-Reebook-outfitting-policy-for-athletes It appears, as part of this deal, that athletes will no longer be able to represent their own sponsors in fights. Any thoughts on this? I can see some pros and cons, but I think it really short-changes the sponsors the fighters have at this point, and I also think it might affect the individual marketability of some of the fighters, as well.

These are all good points. And even by considering the scenario given earlier with these points, I don't see that the man should have been criminally charged.

I just wanted to make a comment in regards to this aspect of the threads that Spartacus Maximus pointed out. The discussions here at KF are pretty free-flowing, and threads will take a turn away from the discussion at hand at times. And that's ok. I think we've generated some pretty good discussion here, discussion we might not have had if the thread hadn't been started at all. Its ok for things to stay a little bit, and if the subject matter gets too off course, that is something we can always address in a separate thread, if we need to. You've started a good thread here, Spartacus Maximus, and its generated great discussion. Not everyone ages the same way. Maybe this instructor could have done something differently, and maybe it would have added a few years to his career. Or maybe not. Either way, I don't think its fair to assume he did something wrong in his training because he stopped sooner than others might.

Nice transition. It looked like you countered initially into that position that you took the Kimura from, is that right? Keeping the chest pressure on to roll them is something we've done in the GRACIE training, too, to roll a suspect into a cuffing and control position. Thanks for sharing this.

I like these drilling ideas, but I might have to work some of the other more basic stuff, first. But, the way you lay it out, you make a lot of these concepts seem basic, especially with the drilling ideas, and I like that a lot.

1. Failed on this one, but I knew it was kind of a longshot to begin with. My regular training partner has been out due to injury and stuff, but I think he is ready to go now. We might hit this next year. 2. Done. I've been pretty steady in attendance, when work allows it. I'm not sure how much my ground skills have improved, but I've been a part of what's going on, and the head instructor of the club recognizes me to the club as an instructor, which is kind of cool. 3. Done. I attended a Police Krav Maga instructor course, which added some nice stand-up to what I have to offer our officers. 4. Done. I've got another session scheduled in December, as well, and I also am working on making arrangements to have a scheduled day for each month at a consistent facility to offer training, as well. So hopefully next year I have monthly training for the departments scheduled. 3 out of 4 isn't too bad. Now I have to start planning for next year....

Yes, its great to hear from you! Keep plugging away, and eventually, things will settle out for you. At any rate, please try to stop in here any chance you get! We'd love to hear from you, and reading here will keep you motivated!

This happens all the time, after the fact. People start Monday morning quarterbacking things, and take out of the equation the fact that these decisions are made in a split-second of action. I think this guy got hosed.

Good stuff, and I agree. Not long ago, I was talking to a student who asking about some advanced kicking techniques, and I was explaining to him different aspects to work on. Sadly, I don't have the physical ability to perform the technique as well as I used to, but I do have the knowledge to teach it, and was able to relate to him the aspects of the kick he was seeking. As we get older, its important to adjust so that we can keep training well into our later years. Not all seniors will be able to train at the pace that younger students do. There are exceptions out there, to be sure. But by and large, as we get older, we have to adapt so we can keep going. In the end, like you mention, its important to understand where we adapt and why, and then let the younger students know why we adapt, and why they should do it differently, and explain these things to them.

I'd have to watch again to see which "front" leg round kick you are talking about, but I agree with you in the semantics of that. If we step the back to the front foot, then it is still a front leg kick, as long as the kicking foot is in front of or even with the base leg. Otherwise, its a switch-foot kick, or a step then a back leg kick.As for the hand coming down to his kicking leg to help whip it up, that isn't uncommon in teaching kicking technique. I think that's a lot of why Olympic stylists have their hands down, because they start swinging their arms to whip their kicks. Kind of like the way a runner pumps his arms when running. As for the Thai fighting advise, I agree as well. But I think this guy has done some Muay Thai fighting, as well.

Congrats to everyone! I don't recall if there have been ties in the past or not?

I would justify this mans' actions. 1. He was defending the life of another. 2. From the information you have provided, he didn't provoke attacks further, but the attention turned to him. 3. He was outnumbered, and there was likely an age difference of significance here. 4. One of the attackers brings a weapon into the mix, which can cause severe bodily harm or death. So, he met force with force, and at least where I am from, that is justifiable in self-defense. There is no reason that this man should be doing time for murder, in my mind.

Not something you would want to throw in any scenerio that involves grappling unless you are very confident off your back! I'm pretty sure I've seen a clip where that move is thrown in Karate though, and they miss, and the opponent is allowed to strike them when they're on the floor? That's the rub, really. Competition rules can change the dynamics of things so much that kicks like this can develop and be used without a thought to consequences of missing.With that said, I doubt this is something this guy pulls off regularly, or even tries to. This was probably an example of a freak opportunity that a good athlete used to his advantage.

I've considered these distinctions before, but have never really defined them as such. For the most part, I've always used the term round kick, and I have never really been taught to do the kick with a full spin. I've tried it here and there, but not much. Now the chamber I use for my "round" kick is the same chamber that he uses for his "roundhouse" kick. We don't do a front kick chamber and then turn the kick over, so we get more rotational power out of our "round" kick. I will say this: this guy knows his stuff when it comes to kicking. I've subscribed to his channel, and used his videos as training tools. Lots of good stuff. As for the naming of these two kicks, its going to depend on the style and the instructors who teach them as to what their called.