hey Iron, i think i sorta remember you guys ... but i was there only for the finals late show. i rooting on my best bud. yes, i know Tjong, my buddy trains with him ( or Tjong teaches my buddy) and Howie Leung (well he trains with the guys from Shouyu Liang). haha, and i guess this is a minor detail, but i'm a chick :pony:! got to see those 2 chicks fight, and boy, i wish i'm still doing sanshou. BTW, nice pics! Ad, i'm not sure about the chinese kickboxing thing, maybe Iron can offer some answers, but i know that in training at Shouyu Liang, they are starting to incorporate knees and elbows...somehting like thai-ing sanshou and chinese-ing muay thai. a lot of the sanshou people are ex-thai boxers, so now the sanshou people are seeing what it's like. i think in the rules, there still aren't any elbows and knees....