Drunken Monkey

hey, anyone got the game of death dvd with the inosanto seminar on the bonus disk? 'you should have an equaliser, throw sand, pick up a picture frame, run fast, we used to have an aerobics program....' i used to have a friend who, when he sees a situation brewing, would make his way slowly to where the trouble was... he once disappeared from campus for a few days then turned up with his arm in a sling, and wearing shades....

this has been said before. all types of sparring is good for you. at different speeds and different levels of aggression and at different levels of 'hardness' different things happen. hence, every type of sparring can teach you something and every type of sparring has something that you can learn. thre is no one 'best' way of doing things.

y'know, one of my old uni mates was a karateka and what he said was that playing with me and my wing chun showed him where the smaller circles are. what he showed me was that i needed to be a little harder. some of my lap saus used to slip cos he was so solid (i.e his 'stillness' resisted my grab...). well, generally, it showed me that i was way too used to playing with other wing chun guys and that my responses were mainly based on what a wing chun would do.

hmm, interesting. we don't see the neck as one of the 'points of strength'. for us the body and head are kinda held on a line (motherline) and don't really move away from that kind of structure. hence, the neck isn't a source of strength in the way that the major joints are. but then i'm not a mantis guy.

actually i'm just tired of dealing with cetain kinds of people.... after all, we're not all stupid on this forum. anyway, anyone else noticed the sudden influx of guys 'from' uk who happen to make the same grammatical and spelling errors?

oooooh, my cousin and her boyfriend are currently in the process of rebuilding a vw beach buggy! they're trying to find an old 2lite 911 engine cos apparently it's about the same dimensions as the old 1.6 from the beetle. my personal dream build machine is a gt40 mk1. anyway. still no luck on finding the name of that tune...

what? nothing wrong with what he's saying. he's young, let him have his fantasies...

oi! doooon't... anyway, belated welcome. nice chatting to you. always good to see another friendly face in here.

well, there is that too...

when i spar with a 'lower' skilled person, i am testing them. likewise when i am sparring with someone better than me, i am the one being tested. this isn't being 'played' with. rather, this is being tested to your limit by someone who should be able to find it and just abut edge you over; to keep you working. the worst thing is for the more experienced guy to force the inexperienced to curl into a ball. no one can learn like that.

y'know, i also just noticed that he is against the use of 'master' whilst i am talking about the title of 'sifu' and they are two totally different things.

it's all good. just trying to explain how i see things. i know that when that happens sometimes, what i am saying gets lost from what we are talking about.

that's why i say i would prefere to have a hands on test to see what i think of him/her. if it was me, going back to hong kong to help train the new guys, i would first like to know that i'm still on par with my peers before atempting to train the new guys. i expect them the test me. i want them to test me.

so what you are saying is that you did some moves that looked like wing chun. oops, not moves, just punches... the fact that you say that wing chun isn't mobile shows that you have very limited knowledge in it.

like i say, too much emphasis on the belt as an object. i think i would rather see if the guy is up to our 'black belt' (if we had a thing ) level. test him somehow and then let him think if he should wear his belt in our class. after all, if he insists and he keeps getting beaten on by lower grades then i think he should realise something.... i've personally never held much regard for belts. too many people obssess over them as an object and forget what they actually mean.

i understand you completely. i was taught under a chinese system in a chinese fashion, following chinese traditions and the use of sifu, to me, is no different to calling someone aunty or uncle. as you said earlier, the use of sifu is no different to the use of doctor or mister. it's nothing special. outside of the martial arts setting, other people call my sifu by that title because they know he is of martial arts background and that is the title traditionally bestowed onto those who teach kung fu. we, the students, call him sifu because that is who he is to us (i.e he is our martial father). in the class, the ideals of being a martial father is that your students treat you as a father figure and that you should act/behave as a father figure. with that comes the responsibility of being a 'parent'. i gave a little story earlier and that is the kind of thing i am talking about. my sifu really is a father to us. i would say that if we didn't think he filled this role, we wouldn't call him by that name. i just don't understand why people think it means anything more. it's not a question of vanity as ripper says. for me, the use of 'sifu' is a cultural thing. i would call anyone in my aunt' kitchen sifu just as i would call the decorators who is plastering my flat in hk sifu.

every input is appreciated. sometimes it takes an 'outsider' to see things clearly.... anyway, you're right. in chinese tradition, it is the one who wishes to learn who goes to the man and asks to accepted as a student. this act of asking to be taught by him is your signifying that you regard him as being a man who can teach you; hence by going to him, it is you who is asking him to be your 'sifu'. outside of this immediate relationship, the use of 'sifu' is common courtesy between martial artists. this other guy has his own school, hence he was deemd by those who went to him, as being worthy to the title 'sifu' so we too will regard him as 'sifu'. we might like him, or we might not. we might think his kung fu is not good but we will not disrespect him because that is not how we do things. the fact that he can teach us his kung fu which we do not know means he is still a 'sifu'.

i'm not being narrow, just trying to keep thing simple so as to not confuse the matter.... well, anyway, as my little post suggests and kinda asks, if he is no longer worthy of the belt status, should he still be regarded as a black belt? as you have said, the issue is can he still kick your butt? what if he can't? what if it is because he is no longer proficient AND is out of shape? i mentioned katas because i was under the assumption that black belts should lead by example and if the cannot even perform basic katas for whatever reason then that is not a good example. that is why i say this kind thing should be judged case by case.

fishing....

ok, let's say you took some kinda exam four years ago. if you took the same exam again today, would you still pass? that's how i'm seeing this. most of your arguments are based on as assumption that the person has retained and maintained his knowledge and skills. if this the case then fine. BUT what about the cases where this just isn't so. should the guy who attained a black belt ten years but gave up training afterwards still hold the black belt when he decides to train again? what if the ten years absence means that he hardly remembers katas and is not able to do them to a satisfactory level? you can't just say 'he got the black belt, he should keep it forever' for every case. after all, the black belt is nothing but symbol of your level of skill in the martial art. if you are no longer at that level, then shouldn't you NOT be a black belt anymore?

see, now you look like you just like arguing. i) no, you wouldn't call your swimming 'teacher' master but you would refere to him as your 'coach'. exactly the same thing as sifu (in a slightly differnt context). and you're taking things too literally. no, not using the titles will not render the 'school' disorganised but it helps in keeping track of class seniority and where we all are within the school. for example, how my students should regard my sifu, or my kung fu brothers. ii) am i chinese? well, most people can tell you whether or not i am. and well, in a way you're right, i could do without using the traditional titles. but then if i adopt english versions or something similar it gets even more confusing. should i start calling my sifu 'my teacher'. then the guy who taught him would be 'my teacher's teacher'. then there's 'my teacher's teacher's class mate'. using this, things can get very messy very quickly. why not use the chinese system and the it would just be 'sifu', 'sigung', si-suk gung' yes i could do without it but for me it would make things more difficult, not easier. iii) but then you are looking at the use of title as pure vanity. is a school teacher vain because they are called 'miss' or 'sir'? is a judge vain because they are called 'your honour'? is a sports trainer vain because they are called 'coach'? see, your problem with the use of titles is purely because of YOUR OWN misconceptions. not because of what the use of titles means. your view is; he who uses 'sifu' is vain. that is just wrong. like i have said before. sifu means martial father, as in one who teaches martial arts to his students. there is nothing in it that means master. that is why the word father is used. it denotes a family structure within the school. it says that your sifu has the same role in your martial art life as your real father has in your normal life. he isn't there to give orders that you obey, rather he is there to offer advice, a way to do things. perhaps your problem also stems from the fact that you have not actually experienced a proper chinese martial arts school where this system exists in its traditional form. in our little class, we have lots of people from different backgrounds. one of our group had a lot of home problems. sifu let him stay at his home and helped him settle down, find a job and all for nothing. that is my sifu. do you think he doesn't deserve the title of martial father?

hmm, i'm not too keen on the statement suggesting that at shodan he is able to then go and ceate his own style. especially as i was under the impression that shodan is kinda the time when you first begin to explore the style in depth properly, since now you know the bread and butter (forms and what moves look like) of the style.

you never know maybe i will get to meet him...

like shakespeare suggests in macbeth, those with much to hide say the most... y'know, the easiest way to stop all of these accusations is for you to give me details of where you train and we could set up a meeting where we can chat and stuff. like i said before, i'm not far from your location and am always up for a new training partner.

i don't see why there should be any problems. i guess what you'll have problems with is maybe basic things like how we punch and the 'soft' feeling in practicing/applying techniques and some of the drills. from what i hear about shotokan, you will have to learn to 'soften/loosen' up a bit. but if anything, your previous experience will provide you with more than average co-ordination of mind+body+hands+feet and strength/accuracy/precision. i should warn you that in some schools, there is a distinct 'disrespect' for other styles and often there is some 'that don't work' comments. but then, i guess that is pretty much true of any style. in any case, be prepared for people in the class saying that shotokan doesn't work. what they really mean is, shotokan doesn't work like how we do.