Drunken Monkey

grappler baki? um, can't say i've heard of that. the stories i'm talking about are chinese fantasy stuff that has in it, kung fu techniques based on real and legendary styles. the 9 evils white bone claw thing is based on eagle claw fused with bagua (albeit a twisted version). it is said to be an ancient shaolin technique and hence explains part of the fued between shaolin and wudang. (a wudang hero was crippled by a masked man who used that technique that could've only come from shaolin) and in the cantonese texts, the word used for the thing that was 'cut' was 'gung' (sounds like 'young'). this word is used for vein, artery, tendon and nerve. the 'technique' i mentioned above is supposed to be a sharp/shocking/jerking/twisting motion after a grab (eagle claw+bagua) that 'tears' tendons hence crippling the victim. (those of you that know chin-na can see where this idea came from....) it wasn't a hitting attack and so isn't a disrupting/bruising thing. hitting/bruising would be 'dim mak/dar mak/por mak' (or even 'bei hei'). the thing you guys are describing seem to be closer to 'jong' (sounds like 'bong') which more or less translates to 'ram into in'. as you make the movement, the intent is to 'cut off' his movement as well as making a strike towards a weaker point on the arm/body/leg. think biu gee from wing chun when used to receive or the rising elbow type movement from silat; there's a degree of 'shock' involved with these. is this what the shuai chiao's is like?

let's see..... your sig, first it said that you use a metal bo then it said you will use a metal bo and now it turns out that you haven't even begun to train to use one yet. what are we supposed to think? once again, cos i haven't said this in a while. repeat after me children; the immortal words of mr garrison: 'there are no stupid questions........'

"dowel for the rattan sticks" what? dowel is not rattan......

a student who keeps asking questions always wanting to know more or a student who doesn't ask questions but spends all of his time working it out physically? same goes for the teacher. would you prefere a teacher who tells you everything you'lle ver need to know about everything from a punch to a step or a teacher who just shows you physically? just a debate topic..... ramble as you please. 'tis the season to be jolly fa la la la la, fa la, la, la argue lots and then get angry fa la la la la, fa la, la, la. threaten strangers, then your neighbours fa la la, fa la la, la la la then get drunk and say you're sorry fa la la la la, fa la, la,la.....

i think i've it drummed into me 'not to advertise'. i was told that martial arts is a dangerous thing. it makes you think you can beat everyone and it makes everyone want to try and beat you. that said, when buses stop suddenly and someone is about to come crashing towards me, nothing like a lan sau/wu sau to stop them without hurting them also. but it's not just martial arts that creep into everyday movements. i do a little card magic and some other slights and i've been told that all of my little hand movements, like geting change out of my pocket, always look like i'm doing something fishy....

...kinda odd.... i tend to watch the space between my hands in guard and him/her. so um, i don't really watch them but rather the space that i'm supposed to be defending.

....joint locks are not something i set out to do when sparring/playing. if the i 'see' the opportunity to try one then i might go for it but it's not my primary aim. normally, this period of 'daylight' happens after moves have been exchanged and we are in the process of gaining control of the situation, be it by trapping/grappling or just punch/block/parry and slipping a hand arm in a certain way. a basic wing chun arm break is like a joint lock without the twist or joint control to take down. you could go for the break or you could flow to the take down. we do a little joint lock/take down practice against single strikes (straight/swing/whatever). it works against single , relatively slow/safe attacks. once the other guy starts to swing harder or heaven forbid, attacks continously, getting a lock on as your primary aim is not an easy thing to do.

.......i mentioned the fantasy books because the only time i have ever heard of nerves being cut/severed is in reference to something called (translated into the closest english i can think of) "nine evils, white bone claw" techniques from which were said to be able to cut/sever nerves. disruption/bruising is 'dar' or 'por'. i can't off the top of my heard think of what the cantonese for cutting, in this instance, might be. in the cases in which i have heard of cutting in this sense (i.e from the books), the effects were permenant due to the type of damamge it is suppposed to inflict.

street fight or street defence? in any case, i just can't see how the situation you describe can actually occur. 10+ violent people suddenly attack you all at once? either you've just been 'ambushed' or you're a poo stirring trouble maker. "frankly I'd have the local police involved if you seriously feel there is that level of risk" gasp, a sensible answer. can't have that here.......

.....i'm partly there with seven. with the exception of a few styles, spirituality wasn't there to begin with. a certain degree of philosophy from the principles involved with the style maybe but never any real spiritual aspect. so, the eternal question from me. logan, what kung fu do you practice?

...slightly different response from me..... in japan and china, the idea of teacher/sensei/sifu is more a part of the society/culture than it is outside of those places. in those cultures, the sensei/sifu is an actual role that exists within the structure of society and as such has it's responsibilities and quite clearly defined relationships within that society. they are looked on with the same respect as a doctor or solicitor or whatever proffession. the only difference is that they also have a role tht is slightly outside of normal society in which they, as sensei/sifu have responibility to maintain/control. traditionally, whether or not you are in the dojo/quan or whether or not you are actively training, that person IS your sensei/sifu, now and forever. to be 'disowned' is one of the biggest is probably one of the most shameful things. you've all read this from me before but traditional sensei/sifu isn't about friendship. it really was a father/son relationship and this relationship is maintained by BOTH parties. while you can say you are good friends with your sensei/sifu but that is more like the way you would say you are friends with your dad. as for modern sensei/student relationships. two things change it is in non eastern society. i) the nature of the modern world cultures. ii) the ways martial arts have changed. there's no way that a native western guy is going to really understand (instinctively) what the traditional role is like, not to say that it won;t fit in with western culture. well, he could understand but it is going to be a 2nd hand understanding, if you get what i mean. then tehre's the fact that more and more these days, your sensei might not be much older than you... whereas in traditional training you were inducted into a dojo/quan at a young age and the guy running the place was the age of your father (or even grandfather in the case of yip man and ip shui etc etc who were teaching up until their deaths), today the guy teaching you might be younger than you. then there's the plain fact that the modern dojo isn't run like one of the past. (a lot of chinese places still teach using the father/son model but then that's cos not many of those schools have been 'modernised')

there's a sticky in the general forum about terminology and links for sites with them.

what does training by yourself accomplish? what does it offer? why do you want to do this?

"never attack the person" hehehe, guess that rules ME out then........ dang, i blame the british/american divide for you all mistaking me for being a bitter and mean inidividual....

well, like i said, i'm not really sure what it was. the class was in china and conducted in manadrin. i was understanding very little of what was going on. it was introduced to me as (in mandarin) 'shuia chiao' and i'm not entirely sure if that term ISN'T used to describe all types of wrestling (y'know, like how kung fu is used to mean all chinese martial arts) or if it was a mixed type class as you suggest. the other exhibition (the game), was very much a fun thing. the guys were all smiling and it was, well, jolly. it wasn't in a classroom/gym with nice pads like the other one. this was like a street game done on dusty roads.

learning something isn't the end. today, i learnt how to use a short stick in an armlock. doesn't mean i can do it. doesn't mean i will be able to it under pressure. doesn't mean i know all of the variations due to changes in angles. doesn't mean a thing......

...please excuse me for the following as my grappling knowledge is very limited so my terms might be a bit off.... it might help if i just describe what i saw. it started of with both parties squaring off and some 'feeling' with a lead hand. both were standing quite high. a grab on a wrist occured and then the grabber closed in and it then they went into the 'usual' elbow/neck/wrist clinch type situation. the take down to the floor that followed had one guy slip and get into what looked in my eyes, like a hip throw except his leg was involved somehow (i didn't quite see how....) i can't even begin to describe what happened on the floor as i really have no idea what they were trying to do and so describing it would be futile. the general gist was that both were trying to gain control. win was by tap-out. i've also seen some of the more ritualistic games they play in the more northern areas where they play the 'throwing game' (i have no idea what it * but was told it was some kind of 'wrestling'). for this they wore some kinda jacket and this was used as something to grip onto. this was more stand-up and unlike before, the match ended when one person falls, usually by way of a throw/trip.

i've seen some shuia chiao, in wei chou (somewhere in northern china...) i think. to me, it looked just like the wrestling i see that you equate to high school wrestling. but then again, i'm not entirely sure of the 'authenticity' of it as a reference to 'real' shuai chiao.

wait a minute... the book's half done and now you're asking for a martial arts style to fill in the gap? i still think having a named style is bad and i still can't shake off the feeling that she's just another james bond clone..... i didn't think much of true romance. i much preferred two days in the valley

this has been bothering me for quite a bit now. it's spelt "fracas".

no. kiss of the dragon is a very bad martial arts film. the reason it was so bad was that jet li was basically playing the typical invincible hero... again..... yawn..... i mean, take all of the jet li characters from the hollywood films, put them in a bag and jumble them up. you can now replace the charcters randomly and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. fact is, that film was aimed at a very specific audience; specifically, the 'jet li fan club'. that group typically wants to see jet li fly about kicking bad guy behind. none of his Hollywood films have been anything that i would call good but they have their audience and that audience isn't too demanding. one of the best martial arts films out there is wheels on meals. one of the best bits, the opening training sequence comes back to haunt jackie chan later on in the film when he squares off against benny urquidez..... details kid. it's all in the details. or how about rumble in the bronx? not a brilliant film but the little bit with jackie working on the dummy instantly says: 'i know kung fu and it might be wing chun', no need for any actual 'story telling' but it gets the info across. i personally think the whole 'going through her file and reading that shes xxx grade in xxx style' is cheesey and just plain lazy/bad writing.

there is an art, that if practiced correctly can guarantee you a fatality. there are also techniques in this styles taht can guarantee multiple fatalities.... soo-i-si-do. tasteless i know..... sorry.....

the point is, you're no Mas Omaya......

.....that's something else i don't buy; the whole unseating horseman thing. a horseman is pretty secure when he's sat on top of that steed of his and if he is a charging type rider then he's gonna be pretty well armoured. i can't see anything happening except the jumping kicker bounce off.... i also can't see the war scenario where an unarmed foot soldier would face off against a guy on a horse; i mean, it doesn't 'fit' into the style of warfare back then. besides, they had nice big knives/spears for attacking high targets or the equally nice big chopping knives for taking out horses' legs.

why do you want to learn to use that? anyway. that site has a nice pair of butterfly knives and a nice wax wod three section staff..... ahem. c...ou...hristmas.....ough......