Steve_K

I see it as, he tried to hit you, and you hit him better. If you think you made a mistake by not doing something you think you should have done, remember that he already made at least four mistakes before you. 1) he got drunk. 2)he apparently did something stupid to get himself hurt. 3)he denied medical attention. and 4) he tried to attack you. Also, if your natural instinct was to kick him, then you reacted perfectly. Also, I respect the traditional martial arts (most of them) for their stressing users to use the least amount of force necessary, however, if you had consciously thrown him instead of naturally kicking him, you could have missed and gotten yourself hurt, or he could have had something sharp and dirty in his pocket or anywhere on him and you could have gotten pricked or cut and contracted something. I say you reacted exactly as you should have. Great job! and don't feel bad at all.

I will say, they do look pretty good in their movement and such, but there was nothing there that I have never done or seen, and probably most of the other users on this forum have not done or seen either. One thing for sure is that that style is not unique. I am very put off with the attitude of the creator/spokesman. Why does everyone claim their art as "the best" or "most effective"? There are only so many ways you can beat someone down. Also, he trains the navy seals? Is this Montgomery Style Karate or what? Or do both styles get taught to the military and police? I'm just going to have to call bogus on this

I like the Charlie Brown reference, assuming that's what you were doing.

That was embarrassing and disgraceful. I'm not one to rag on youtube videos but I just had to say something about that one. Forgive me, but that is just what you get when you teach muscle-heads how to fight. I say that because it wasn't just those two guys taking part in it, everybody else around them was just eating it up. Now I know not all of them behave that way, but it's my feeling that there are way too many guys like that; juiced up athletes who want to be tough and beat on people just to fuel their egos. The only way I can describe it is shameful.

Are you sure it's "Koju" and not "Goju" ryu? If it is Goju ryu then you can find lots of information about it on the internet, wikipedia is always a nice source of information for a general overview. Welcome to the forums.

From my experience, it is not uncommon for students who have been training for a couple of years to help teach beginners in basics. I did the same thing once I advanced three or four ranks. Now if they guy is claiming that he became a black belt in two years and has been an official instructor for thirty out of thirty-two, then that would be something to be concerned about. But if you just don't have a good feeling about the guy, then don't risk it. The main question to ask yourself is, what are you interested in training in the martial arts for? Kyokushin is known for being very tough and training full contact with bare knuckles. If you are interested in the "martial" aspects then kyokushin would be a good consideration. However if you are interested in a less aggressive and more mainstream but still very effective style then shotokan would be your best bet. If it is 100 U.S. dollars for four months, then that is an extremely good deal. If you decide on shotokan, check the schools out and use your judgement to make sure the instructors are legitimate. Any time you hear someone say they are an 8th or 9th degree black belt you have to make sure their rank is in a well established denomination of karate. I can say that I am a grandmaster of bluegrass style karate, but I'm not really of grandmaster status, you know what I mean? I'm not saying these guys aren't legitimate but when someone is claiming to be of such a high degree, you just need to make sure, because you want to be learning respectable instructor. I hope that wasn't too much to take in and I hope it helped. Perhaps some of the other forum members could give you some advice on what to look for in a good instructor? Good luck and welcome to the forums. Steve

I didn't know that kind of contact was allowed in olympic style tournaments. Your suggestion is interesting.

I'm reluctnant to do any olympic TKD, because all the scoring is done with kicking, and I much prefer hand strikes, and I'm particularly interested in knockdown tournaments, because the fighting goes until someone goes down or a strike is hard enough to make someone stop. Although I do appreciate the help you have offered this far, thank you very much

Could anyone give me information on how to find full contact or knockdown karate tournaments in the U.S.? If not, I would also be interested in continuous fighting tournaments, as opposed to stop and go point fighting. I've done searches on the internet and they have been difficult to find. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you are beginning with your training, I would suggest you first train by punching and leaving a slight bend in your elbow. If you haven't done any training before, the control and coordination of your elbow joints aren't acute enough to ensure that you won't cause injury. For the first few years of my training I always made sure I kept a bend, but now I am conditioned to be able to know and feel exactly where I have to stop my extension without causing injury. Indeed, bone alignment is quite advantageous, but power in striking, particularly punches, comes from acceleration, and proper coordination of legs, hips and the shoulder. Hope that helps

Cross, I didn't mean to presume you didn't believe in technique, just that the "formal" techniques are more versatile and applicable than you give them credit for. Your comments on wrestling and jujitsu are dead on. Like I said before, the best way to train would be to simply fight a bunch of different people all the time. Jujitsu can be trained the way it is because a submission isn't instantly damaging like a strike is. That is why for striking arts, different methods had to be developed to train a person's movements, such as punching bags, technique drills, kata and sparring. If I have the choice, I would rather have a partner throwing punches and kicks at me while I just try to defend, and vice versa. That you have developed a personal method that you feel works perfectly for you is fantastic, seriously. I myself have found some serious gaps in the "classical" training I have received, and I had to, successfully I might add, account for those gaps. Believe me, I don't think katas are perfect or even crucial for training. However, I have personally gotten to a point where I can practice them and increase my functional abilities. I do not practice them due to tradition, sacredness, or out of blind faith, but because I find them realistically beneficial, for the most part. I believe katas are a supplement, not a miracle drug, meaning it has to work with other factors in order to serve a purpose. I find them physically intense, and very complimentary to my more "realistic" training. As was said before, they are good for SOLO training, in conjunction to other drills and as an overall physical exercise. A good partner will always be preferred.

Cross, I think you are greatly underestimating the importance of form and I'm not talking about the "keep your fist chambered at your hip" form but precise and consistent movement. In grappling martial arts like wrestling and jujitsu, technique is absolutely key. When I am wrestling with someone, I have to make sure that I am in perfect position and my movement is precise in order to execute the technique as effectively as possible. If my hips are a little too high, my arms aren't in enough or my feet are too close or far apart, I end up having to use twice as much strength or more to execute the move. Naturally, my movement while free wrestling is a bit less precise than it is when I am drilling a particular move, but it is certainly a heck of a lot better than someone who was shown the move once, did it once, and that's it. If you don't train your blocks well enough, you may not block far enough and/or hard enough. If you don't train your strikes properly, you can easily injure your arm and wrist, and if you don't train your stance and movement properly, you can easily stumble and/or be caught off balance. For someone like me who is 5'6" and 140lbs, proficiency in technique is everything. Like a doctor in medical school, who gets desensitized and learned in his/her schooling, working on cadavers and doing clinicals, when they are finally faced with a real situation on their own, yes they will probably be nervous and have adrenaline running, they will still be better mentally prepared to think clearly and correctly. Same thing for martial artists when properly trained. Our business is training for violence and aggression. When thinking about and considering these things as often as we do, over time, when faced with the prospect of a real physical confrontation we will be less effected by the rush we will experience. I want to be clear that I'm not saying that we will behave just as we would during training and sparring, but the sensations will be less intense than someone who hasn't trained. I know from my own personal experiences. On several occasions I was faced with a violent situation. It happened just recently; I got a rush when I realized things might escalate, but it was less intense than it was when I was younger and hadn't been training as long. At this point I was so used to people coming at me, and wrestling and fighting with people in training, the only difference was that I didn't know the guy. The person was just some stupid high school kid looking to act tough, but like most people, he was too chicken to try anything himself, and he ended up backing off after we exchanged some words. Nevertheless I was fully prepared for him to come at me, and I had no concerns about being able to handle it, not in a conceited way, but a calm way.

Perhaps the movements are not. The ability to convert the movements (which have very limited direct application) to techniques that will actually work does take quiet a bit of thought. Looking at another post on the forum regarding how many kata people know, it turns out the majority of people learn upwards of 15 kata. If we are conservative and say each kata has 10 techniques (most probably more). Thats 150 techniques to remember. Some will overlap, but do the overlapping ones all have the same application, or is each 1 different? The point im trying to make is that learning alot of techniques is probably the worst thing you could do if you want to defend yourself. Having alot to choose from causes indecision which is something you cant afford to do. And all that assumes the person has a working application to all the techniques. I have to disagree with you there. I don't believe that katas alone offer extensive benefits in relation to actual combative situations. As for the multitude of techniques you pointed out, aside from the movements that are open for interpretation such as jumping "x" blocks and pole blocks, you basically have your front, side, and roundhouse kicks, punches and knife hand strikes and the variations of the upper, middle and lower blocks. The variations of the blocks include the closed fist, knife hand, and palm variations, each of which represents the hard, intermediate and soft forms of blocking, and all of which have their very appropriate place in reality. In my experience, I have never been confused and was never slowed down by trying to decide which technique to use. You train each movement, not just in kata but in general, so that your instincts decide which is appropriate, which is why each person has their own "favorite" techniques. I have a knack for sticking people under the arm with my side kick, I never had to think about it, I just did it. Because of my training, my instincts know when I need to throw a punch, round, front or side kick. That is the entire point of training. When you speak of training your instincts, I both agree and disagree with you. Most people's natural instinct when someone jumps at them is to flinch, close their eyes, and bring their hands up over their face. Someone with training will be able to quickly identify the dangers (if any) that the person who is jumping at them pose, such as their hands or feet, and will block or move or not, accordingly. For a while I was personally trying to develop a training method to practice the movements I use when I am actually fighting. The problem I found with that is the movements a person does when actually fighting are what I call, sloppy versions of the "formal" movements that are taught in class. To try to train those kinds of instinctive movements will, in my belief, result in inconsistent and generally unreliable training. When you think about it, many of our human instincts are less efficient and even damaging when compared to the techniques trained in fighting arts. For example, when you fall, you are supposed to absorb as much of the landing over the largest surface of your body as possible, however, the natural instinct a person has when they fall, is to put their hands out, which can actually result in broken writs, radius or ulna. Another example is, when people fight, a lot of the time their natural tenedency is to swing wide and furiously which is very bad if your opponent knows how to block and move withing the length of the attacker's arms. The broad movements that are taught by an instructor and are present in kata, can and will instinctively be modified to a person's natural, physical preference in a reality setting but at the same time, be much more effective and efficient than that person's natural instinct alone.

The mindset you acheive during kata would be worlds apart from how your body would react during a violent situation. Fine motor skill is the first thing that flies out the window. Okay... I didn't say anything about motor skills, and anyway, most all the movements in the katas are broad and in general not consequence to fine motor functions. The way you make it sound, people who practice kata have as good a chance of hitting themselves in the face as they do their opponent. I think (almost) all of us can agree that's not true. Also A person can put themselves into any mindset they want while performing katas. I put myself into a violent and aggressive mindset where I feel ready to tear somebody apart. I'm not saying it's the exact state I'd be in during a fight, but I try to bring it as close as I can. Anyway, the entire point of training in general is to make yourself able to perform those movements and think relatively clearly under the high stress and adrenaline.

Nicely put Bushido_Man. Like you said, many very good fighters and martial artists don't practice kata because they don't have to, and nobody has to. I practice them for the same reason you do. To push myself and get a good work out. Since they are so short, they're good for practicing to put yourself in the violent and aggressive mindset you need to be in while fighting for real, as opposed to trying to hold that mindset for the duration of your entire workout. I don't think of the movements as an actual continuous fight, because the movements don't emulate the movement of a real fight. I think of each combination of 2-5 movements as that single critical moment that occurs in a fight where you have to commit your movement and strike hard and fast to end the fight in an instant. Katas are just in the list of all the things I do to train. I lift weights, run, drill hands, feet and movement, work on a heavy bag, wrestle (when I have a partner) and do katas. Working on a heavy bag, running or lifting alone won't make you a good fighter; and the same goes for kata.

Who said anyone was doing it blindly? I wasn't preaching amazing benefits of kata. I am well aware of all the other kinds of training Oyama did; I eluded to them above. It is definately not the beat all, end all way to train. You don't NEED to perform the katas with partners, although that would certainly be the preferred method. I was simply pointing out that it wasn't a waste of time. You can't practice them as if you were dancing, just doing the moves. You really have to focus and visualize as if you were really being attacked. The benefits depend entirely on your mind state when you practice. Aside from the physical resistance, how is kata any less beneficial than striking a heavy bag or focus mits or drilling a single technique over and over? The best way to train would be to have a bunch of guys and just fight them over and over, but a lot of times you have to practice alone. It's not like you WILL be a great fighter if you practice kata all the time, and it's not like you can't be a great fighter if you don't. I'm just saying that if you want to practice it, don't feel like you're doing it just because your teacher tells you to and that you're wasting your time. If you don't want to do it, then don't. If something else seems to work better for you when you're by yourself then do it. It did seem to work for Oyama, and many other very tough martial artists that I know personally, as a PART of their training. I'm just tired of hearing people say either "You shouldn't do it, because it's worthless" or "You have to do it, because it's priceless". It just is there, and if you do it correctly, it's good for you. It's like orange juice.

I'm sure someone already said this but I figured I'd just refresh the idea. Masutatsu Oyama, while he was training in the mountains for something like a year and a half, he would perform kata a minimum of one hundred times a day, among other forms of training. He was easily one of the baddest dudes on the planet and beat great fighters of many different styles including wrestlers and grapplers. He did have a black belt in judo, but I'm not sure if he even had to use that skill to defeat them. The point is, if he believed in kata, then there must be some value there.

Like everyone has been saying, you should get a restraining order. Not just so he is on record if he threatens YOU again, but to help protect anyone else in the future he may try to intimidate. If they put a restraining order on him, and the police see he already has/had one, I'm sure the consequences will be much greater. People like this guy probably will back off when someone stands up to them, but if that is the case, they will just find someone else who will succumb to their bullying. It doesn't make you the hero if you can only stop him from intimidating you, but if you can help stop him from intimidating someone else.

The practicality of either really just depends on the position of your hand relative to your body. If your hand sits more to the outside of your body while in your fighting stance, then the jab would travel much easier than the backfist, however, if your hand sits more to the inside of your body, then a backfist would be more pracital. By outside of your body I mean. If you are standing with your left leg forward, your fist sits to the left of your head, if you are looking forward. From that position a jab can be thrown more easily... if your fist sits to the right of your head, then a backfist is more easily thrown.

As has been stated before, if your instructor doesn't understand your issues and makes you feel embarrassed then you should leave, and find a more compassionate instructor. As for your difficulty remembering forms and doing drills, know that the forms and drills (at least should) make sense, and aren't just choreography. For example. Say your form has you turn left, block, step punch, turn right block step punch, turn left block, step, punch, punch, punch. Just reading that is confusing, but if you know what the form is addressing then it will make sense and help you remember. For example. There's a guy to your left and he throws a punch at you. What do you do? You turn and block it. Now he's open so what do you do? You step in and hit him. Now there's a guy behind you throwing a punch. What do you do? You turn and block that, and now that he's open, you hit him. Lastly, there's a guy to your left throwing a punch, so you turn and block that, and since he's maybe a little tougher, you have to hit him three times. It is very important to visualize when you train. So envision people attacking you at these angles. Learning the martial arts isn't like memorizing a speech, it's like learning math. Math is orderly and logical and if all you can do is learn the very basics of it, then you will still make progress. Just remember that it makes sense, so make it, make sense to you. I hope this helps. Good luck.

Karate basically means any japanese striking art. Similarly, Tae Kwon Do originally meant pretty much the same thing, until it became an olympic sport and there became a stark contrast between original and olympic TKD. Therefore, since TKD was greatly influenced by the japanese arts, it is certainly understandable that someone would market it as Karate, so people don't assume that since it's TKD, the school is just a bunch of people wearing vests and funny hats trying to kick eachother in the face, no offense to sport TKD practitioners. I sometimes tell people that I do Karate, just so they have a better immediate idea of what I do.

Someone may have already made this point but... Robert Mark Kamen, who wrote the Karate Kid, studied Goju Ryu, and though he didn't directly say it, if Mr. Miyagi's style were to have a name, it would probably be Goju Ryu. Not only because Kamen studied it, but the blocking system Daniel is taught reflects it's philosophy, being that he learns both hard (wax on/off, sand the floor) and soft (paint the fence/house) blocks. Also Miyagi's ki power reflects that which is sometimes associated with Goju Ryu. I think someone said this earlier, that the Miyagi family kata is one that probably came from Fumio Demura, the stunt man for Miyagi, I think his style is Shito Ryu.

Great site Thank you very much.

Hello everyone I am looking for any open Karate/ (non-olympic) TKD tournaments (particularly sparring) in the Ohio or northern Kentucky area. As far as the Ohio area is concerned I would prefer tournaments in the western side of the state, if possible. Either direct information or a link to a good web site would be great. I've only competed in a couple of tournaments which weren't very good, and I'm just looking for some that I could go and have a good time at. I'm a 1st Dan in non-olympic TKD and I'm hoping for a tournament with a good pool of adult black belts competing. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance Steve

I have seen it. It is UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!1111