Zaine

Attached is a youtube video of a wing chun practitioner who entered a karate studio to challenge one of the students there. No other description is given, and I didn't watch it with sound, but what it seems like is that this guy wants to test his skill against a harder style. For me there is a lot of arrogance in this video. First off, this isn't the age where one just goes into another studio out of the blue and submits challenges. I would personally have kicked the guy out. For me, getting a call or an email a few days in advance as a challenge would be acceptable. I would happily accept the challenge as it would be an excellent learning experience for not only my students but the practitioner. What I saw here was not only holes in technique coming from both side but a lack of exposure on the side of the karate studio. The karate guy clearly had no clue how to handle the wing chun practitioner because he had no clue what was in store. Was absolutely unfamiliar with the fighting philosophies of kung fu and honestly looked like a fool. The wing chun guy had a bit more exposure, but not enough to know that in karate there are many systems at least somewhat comfortable with going to the ground, although when it did the karate guy seemed to be extremely clueless as to how to handle himself. The driving point to this post is to ask yourself this. Do you, as teachers and students, expose yourself to the opposite end of the martial arts world? Do you make sure that you or your students understand the principles of the other styles? Most importantly, are you and/or your students sufficiently equipped for a challenge such as this?

Nothing like a healthy debate.

That seems fair to me.

Ah, no I don't think it's being committed here. I do have some experience being a student of philosophy and already passing the logic requirements for my major. As a little non sequitur, the post hoc fallacy, which you wrote out correctly for modern terms, should actually real post hoc ergo propter huius. I'm a Latin nerd, what can I say.

I don't see where the Post Hoc fallacy is being committed.

That's kind of what I usually keep in mind when people talk about chi. Although there are some who take it to the extreme.

Most who do Okinawan karate do.

What branch of Shorin Ryu are you studying?

So you learned the pinans one after the other? That would make a lot of sense. Pinans are beginning crane for a lot of systems, especially when you get to Sandan and beyond. Some take those further and put more emphasis on the circular motions, some don't. I learned the first two pinans and then had to wait until 2nd Kyu to learn the last. Naihanchi katas are some of my favorite, but they focus more on the stances than the circular movement the way I learned them. A lot of fun when you get to Naihanci Sandan. The first two have a choppy feel whereas the third flows very nicely.

That's one of the names I was forgetting but I'm thinking 2 more up the lineage. I remember a man training under Kusanku who taught Matsumura who taught Itosu. Driving me crazy that I can't remember.

I don't think it was a form that influenced the start of Shorin Ryu, I believe it was a Japanese solider who was in China. However, it's been awhile since I've read the books for Shorin Ryu, being that I haven't been in a formal class in a while. Shorin Ryu doesn't have forms and movements that flow and are circular until you're testing for shodan and above, usually those are reserved for higher ranks, after they have gone through with the more linear training. No doubt that your teacher just has a different way of teaching, he/she might focus more on that. What forms do you know as a 5th kyu and, probably more importantly, which branch of Shorin Ryu are you studying?

Welcome to KF!

Welcome to KF!

I remember when I start going for kung fu after almost a decade in karate. It's a hard transition, you instinctively punch hard, form your strikes in a way that you were taught in karate. It's hard to go against a lot of the muscle memory that you have built but when you do you find that you incorporate a lot of it into what you know and what you get is a hybrid. I personally feel that those who don't train in both kung fu and karate are far behind those who do because it gives you a perspective that you just cannot get if you only have one side of the spectrum under your belt.

You also might want to try and find a hung gar studio as there system heavily uses tiger techniques. Apparently it's a lot of fun to take to. Of course, I think that most martial arts are a lot of fun to learn. This one in particular is supposed to be quite aggressive. Again, I don't know so if anyone who is more familiar with the system could shed some light on that information that would be fantastic.

This is a tough thing to go through. I went through the same thing, although it wasn't because of techniques but because of the doctrines that the system was changing to. The easy answer is talk to your instructor, sometimes what we perceive as fluff has something hidden in it. On the other hand sometimes it's fluff and it's just been there so long that it leaks into tradition. I ended up leaving that school, which was a great step for me but again, my situation was different, I didn't agree with the new ideologies that my instructor was slowly making mandatory for a student to believe. It's your call.

You're right, there are consequences for those who are knowledgeable but not wise and some people do face those consequences. I really don't think avoiding pain is a sign of wisdom though. Just self preservation.

Martial art definitely. It is also a sport just like every other martial art can be.

Chi really belongs to a branch of Eastern Mysticism that is really dying out in the martial arts being practiced in the west. There was nothing wrong with the practical chi practitioners, and in fact it was more of an inner peace deal and had a lot to do with balancing your body in your mind. The unfortunate advent that we see today is also a largely western monster. We're lazy and the eastern immigrants to the west capitalized on that and blew it out of proportion. This is not to say that this didn't happen before martial arts migrated to the west but we have a certain way about us that makes us take stuff like this, that promises a quick way out and just running with it. Your teacher seems to have the right of it.

Welcome to KF!

I'm not familiar enough with how chi actually works to speak about that but I do know the science behind it. By opening their hands I'm assuming that they're not tensed at all and then at the last minute they tense up. They are relying on a mixture of their gravity and weight to increase the velocity of the strike. At the last second they prepare for impact. If you stay clinch all the way it is only you who is doing any kind of movement, and you factor out gravity a bit more than when you kind of let it do its thing.

My teacher always told us that if it was light enough to swing around then we could use it as a weapon. He had to make that distinction after we asked if such things as couches, televisions and ovens could be used.

Knowledge is part of wisdom but wisdom is not part of knowledge. Think about it, every wise person who I've met is usually quite knowledgeable, but the reverse does not always hold true. Knowledge is what we know, the hard facts, whereas Wisdom is the application of that knowledge to our lives.

Haha so true!

That's a hard question to answer if we don't consider the prospective student's wants. However, I would imagine that they would go towards the kumite champion.