Zaine

My first school we had to go through our opening calisthenics, lead them after 5th kyu, then every kata, then 3 3 round sparring matches for lower kyus, 5 3 minute rounds for upper kyus, and for Shodan and above there are various rounds for 30-60 minutes. My current dojo depends on how many are testing, but it tends to be 10-30 minutes for kyu ranks, and 2 hours for Shodan. No calisthenics, no exercises, just a demonstration of techniques learned. This includes any Hojo Undo introduced at the current rank, if you're testing with juniors then you do their Hojo Undo with them as well. Afterwards it's the kata you've learned for that rank (at Shodan it's every kata), and then ippon kumite for that rank. For kyu ranks, that's it. The board will go to another room and discuss, and then after that you rank up if you didn't totally bomb the test or have a bad attitude. For Shodan, there is also sparring involved. From what I understand, pre-covid sparring was included in upper kyu tests as well. Furthermore, the testee has to put together a demo to demonstrate their knowledge and understanding of karate.

Everyone is different. Passion waxes and wanes, and sometimes things that consumed us wholly fail to return. Sometimes, life happens, and we need to put aside hobbies for things that are more important to our survival. Perhaps they just needed to know enough to get them out of a fight, but have no real interest beyond that. People take what they want from things and move on, even those of us who are lifers. I'm not worried about people who stay for one rank and then leave, if we can't plan for turnover then our gyms will fail. Turnover is a fact of life for martial artists. What makes people interested in BJJ? MMA, probably. UFC is still pretty huge. We have no small number of MMA organizations beside UFC like Bellator now. Those fights go to the ground and that's exciting to watch. To the untrained, if you watch a bunch of fights go to the ground regularly, you might have the impression that fights go to the ground regularly. Maybe they do, in 1v1 situations, I am thankfully ignorant of that in my personal life. However, the data tends to suggest otherwise. Either way, perception is reality. If the perception is an over valuation of being able to defend oneself on the ground, then that's where interest will follow. Who knows what's going to happen in the next decade. Maybe something like Karate Combat will hit big and people will flock to karate. Maybe a movie as influential as Karate Kid will come out and that boosts karate numbers as well. The future in unknowable. Would changing the grading system of karate change to reflect what you've described increase quality? Probably not. To begin with, the instructors that decided a person is ready to test is still the same person. If they are okay with the quality of their dojo, then changing the testing structure isn't going to change the quality, just the bureaucracy. Increasing the quality of karate is not an obtainable goal. You can promote quality karate, highlight certain dojos, teach your students to a high standard, but for every you there will be a handful of people who aren't teaching a high standard of karate. I'm not sure that's as big of a problem as we think it is. When it comes to teaching, our goal is to see improvement. If a white belt is trying their hardest, improving, though not at the rate someone else is, do we, as instructors, hold them at white until they are as ready as someone else was? I would argue that we promote them. Karate is a personal journey, and if they have improved enough and are still trying to improve then they deserve that 9th kyu rank, and I think this is true all the way up to black belt. Not every body needs to be a paragon of martial arts. Not everyone wants to be a paragon of martial arts. Are their techniques perfect? Who cares. Are their techniques better today than they were last time? That's what's important. We keep telling karateka that karate is about growth. We need to walk the walk if we're going to talk the talk.

I just took a peek at the prices of Shoyoroll on their website. It's very likely that the disparaging tone is coming from spending $250 on a gi for a hobby that you've only just started.

Weird. One of the first thing I tell people who seem to be intent on sticking around is to buy a good quality gi (I don't recommend a brand per say) because it will last them longer and feel better (not to mention give good snap). Maybe there's a belief here that higher quality gis are for upper ranks? Or perhaps they think the white belt a fool for dropping over $100 on a gi that they might not use do to turnover. Who know. I tend to not care very much what anyone wears, as long as they're in uniform.

My best guess is that he would speak through avatars or in the shadows, saving the CGI budget for the Fingolfin fight and the stealing of the silmaril by Beren.

It depends on what they were going for. I'm also assuming that this would be someone I knew talking to me about it. If they were just looking for defense in general, and an exercise, I would argue that they should do karate because I do karate and it's nice having a friend there when you did it. Also, since I am experienced, they would have someone they felt comfortable asking questions to right off the bat. If they were looking to do something specific, like MMA or kickboxing, it's unlikely that I would argue with them to do karate over something more tailored to what they want. I would advise them to come visit time to time to open up their perspective, but I'm of the opinion that if something caters to their specific desires then that thing should be what they pursue. Martial arts tend to be what we make it and the more people engaging with it at any level the better. Not everyone has to enter into the fighting side of it through karate like I did.

If this goes well, I can see a Feanor saga in the works. It seems likely to me that they would want to test a show with characters that movie fans were familiar with before pushing beyond that.

Honestly if it's a brand you like and are comfortable with already then I would just go with that. Gis can vary so much between manufacturer, so if you've found something that you like then stick with it.

Also punching! Sometimes throwing! Definitely finger striking.

To take auirk's lead: Dad, which is my favorite M.A. English and Creative Writing Shodan Matsumura Seito Shorin-Ryu Shodan American Street Karate 4th Kyu Shobayashi Shorin-Ryu 4th Kyu Shudokan Unranked Southern Mantis/Longfist (Sifu did not believe in ranking) Unranked HEMA (There are some programs that do ranking but they tend to be in the minority)

Something that I really appreciate about my dojo is our precautions, despite the location. We did have a case hit our dojo 2 weeks ago, but it was only 2 people and they notified everyone immediately. We've had people not show up when they came in contact with someone with COVID, even when they weren't infected themselves. Everyone is very careful here. We have some high-risk individuals (like myself), some who live with high-risk individuals (a few take care of elderly parents) and we've approached the whole thing with a lot of compassion and understanding. That said, I love the decisions that Wastelander is making here. You really cannot be too safe with COVID. As compassionate and careful as my dojo is being, we're still taking more risks that we need to.

I don't know how I missed this thread! I signed up when I was 15, and the amount of growth that I have seen not only in myself in those 17 years but in this forum is crazy. I love our little corner of the internet. Now that it is old enough to enjoy an adult beverage, have one on me, KF!

There is a oddly high density of styles that aren't as represented in the public space here. My guess is that because Shotokan and the like have so many spaces that are usually exclusive to them, they are less inclined to hunt for spaces to share their passion. I've been doing Shorin-Ryu for most of my time as a martial artist, and the amount of people I see in these classes compared to the Shotokan, TSD, and TKD dojos and dojangs I have visited is a huge difference. It's one of the things that I love about this forum. You get to see a lot of smaller (in terms of size) systems being represented here and it creates a wonderful mix of perspective. We love our Shotokan and other more "popular" systems here, but it's also cool to see the variety.

Welcome to KF! It's great to have you!

Congrats! Well earned!

I live in Texas, so my dojo cannot require vaccines by law, which is insane to me since we're a private business and historically the platform our governor has run on has frowned upon policy like this. So because of that, no dojo that I can go to here will have a vaccine requirement, which makes me nervous. However, during spikes our dojo will require masks, which is appreciated. We are in a period now where masks are not required, but wearing a mask is still accepted and you will be asked to leave if you're causing a fuss about someone else wearing one because of their own choice. I would feel a lot better if our dojo mandated vaccinations, and I know a few others who would as well since we're immunocompromised or frequently around immunocompromised people but the literal law is standing in our way.

Yes, we were meaning two different things here so the wires got a little crossed. I was meaning someone on the ground but not knocked-out. That's a fair point. We tend to use it in a few different ways. Not surprising. MSSR Chinto is much different from the Chinto that Shobayashi does and I've seen at least 2 other ways since. Very possible, and that is the difficulty with talking about kata in a text based format. There's also the issue of the game of telephone that is learning karate, and the way that some people will morph a kata to make sense for their bodies. We run into this problem at my school. The founder was a very short man, and as such some of the techniques were very likely changed to make sense for him. In the change came a change in bunkai and the like and this is what he passed on. Now were at the place in the dojo of trying to translate those techniques back into something that makes sense as a lot of us are significantly taller than he was. Part of the fun of karate for sure, but definitely frustrating.

I was unclear, I think. We do practice some Kihon moving backwards. Our non-kata drills are almost exclusively defensive in this way. We also have a number of kata bunkai that has us moving backwards.

Sure, and we have that in spades, but we also have just straight up punches to a downed opponent. It even shows up in our ippon kumite and other "official" bunkai applications. We have one that comes to mind where, after a throw, we punch to the groin.

The example the comes to mind here is Gojushiho. In the Shobayashi iteration of it, there is the sequencing of the finger strikes, kick, punch, then a horse stance at 45 degrees where we scoop up the head (imagine grabbing hair) and then punch down. There is also the final move of Chinto (also Shobayashi) where the final move is expressly hitting a downed opponent by going to the knee and delivering a punch. There isn't much of this in Matsumura-Seito, but I've encountered quite a lot of it in Shobayashi. Ananku, in every version that I have learned, sets a cat stance in the first two shutos by stepping forward into a cat stance. Some versions of Wansu also end with setting a cat stance forward for the shutos. Pinan Shodan often steps forward into cat stance with shutos as well.

I want to believe that the majority of practitioners think the way you do about kata here. Kata is very clinical in nature, there is a correct way to do a move in a kata. In fact, I cannot think of one bunkai from a kata that matches the way I do the kata 1-to-1. There's not really any situation in which I would sink down to a horse stance, especially to hit a downed enemy who is right next to my perfectly functioning foot. For me, kata has always been about learning the "proper" way of doing a technique so that I can riff off it at will. I might never set into a full cat stance, but I do a modified one in sparring quite often. This is also the importance of bunkai and drills, for me. We have a naihanchi drill that isn't as based in "proper technique" that I find effective and easy to remember because of all the times that I have done naihanchi in my life.

Certainly some of the hyung can fall into the karate side, such as the nahanchi series found in TSD. I would not be surprised, either, to learn that some of the other hyung are cognates from kung fu. If you're unsure about a technique, I would say that a general rule of thumb (and a very loose one, at that) would be the harder the technique the liker it is that it comes from karate, the softer the technique, and the more it flows, is kung fu. Exceptions aside, it's how I generally gauge things within my own martial arts. All-in-all, it's going to be so hard to tell at this point. We are far enough away from the original styles from which sprung our modern ones that it becomes increasingly difficult to know for sure which technique came from where. Adding to this mix the penchant for martial arts to be surrounded by so many legends and myths, it's just too muddled. I suggest maybe finding a book on the history of TSD, or Korean MA in general. That might give you some more detailed answers.

Congrats Danielle! I don't even think I can count that high.

This sums up the feelings of disagreement that I had in a much more succinct way than I think I could have said it.

I generally let Korean Karate practitioners make their own decisions about this, but it seems that the consensus here is that it is Karate and I don't really see a reason to say otherwise. I don't think popularity in other countries plays a whole lot into. As wide spread as karate is, it doesn't feel fair to claim that it is a wholly Japanese or Okinawan thing anymore. Making the argument that it is a wholly Japan or Okinawan thing does open the door for arguments based on Karate's own history, which is deeply rooted in Chinese martial art traditions. Does that make Karate it's own thing? Or a branch of some system of kung fu? I think the name argues for my point as well. Karate means empty hand. Does our decision to continue the use of that name mean that it is a Japanese thing? Or like the word "cool" has it simply become a borrowed word within the lexicon of a myriad of languages. Linguistics would suggest that the latter is the case here. Again, this is not to say that we should be flippant about the history of karate in Western countries and elsewhere. It's important to know where our styles come from and respect that lineage. But if we're not calling Shorin Ryu Tode anymore, then I don't think it's necessary for us to consider Karate from other countries as being wholly Japanese.