dafabe

I am not going to argue with you 'Eye of the Tiger' but I will say this. garpling can be just as agresive as any other martial art. and.... you obviously dont know what you are talking about you just sound like someone trying to get recodised for havieing a view. you should look into things and find out things before you say them, you have basicly just made up a pile of rubish.

I also belive that it is not the best martial art to get fit, a brown belt came to our class for the first time and he was sick arter the work out, (thai boxing).

I am glad we dont have guns in this contry (UK). They are evil and look at the state some placecs in the USA are due to guns, althought there is some about you are alot less likely to find someone running around with a gun in the jacket, anywhere, the dodgy areas in the city I live Glasgow (Scotland) , the guy are generalt just knife weilding hard men.

That in my opinion is the best reply, I have had in this topic, instead of going of the handle about my art is better than yours you actually try to explain something, witch makes sense, I still belive that if you want to be a complete fighter you should do more than one art. but what you have said is very true and will make people think. Credit to you and your Beliefs. excuse the spelling )

I know the TAO OF JKD was not complete but the main lesson was ther as it says at the beging of the book and I qoute "Once read theis book will be usefull only for cleaning up mess, as you will see" Evry on is difrent and learing to fight is an individual thing there for following any one predefined style is unlikely to make you the best fighter you can be. You say that karate has been developed with this in mind, perhaps for the person/persons that altered it but not for the individual, I practice Thai boxing and Vale Tudo, and always listen to other peoples ideas to see if I can use them, the great thing about simplifing what you know is that you can learn to do it instinctively, other systems are quite often over complex and when it comes down to fighting it clutters you mind when in a fighting situation. thanx for you information all

I am not saying it is useless, and when I refer to rules, I have found that breaking tradition, is looked upon as being wrong, even if it seems logical, what makes these thai boxers hard is the fact the spar fight alot, I say once more I respect Karateka but I just feel that it is less about fighting, and more about other things tradition for one, this is not a bad thing but if If you are wanting to learn to fight then read Tao of Jeet kune do, and do not go to a class that claims to teach Jeet kune do. you will only learn some guy interperitation of it. there are many techniques that are usless/not much use in all martial arts. that is reson to discard them enough. why practice something that is no use. and yes I would shadow box witch is alot more dynamic as you are trying to simulate fighting more accurately, I agree that shadow boxing is simalar to kata in alot of ways but shadow boxing not just helps with you technuiques but also puts you in a more realistic fighting situation. how ever practicing with someone is much more helpfull and I concitrate on sparing alot.

I thought karate was supose to encourage self disipline and control of anger, but yet you sound angry by my coments, In order to calm you down, I will say this, I have the upmost respect all karate ka, for what they do, I just dont think that it is a very affective fighting style, compared to a good combination of other arts. as soon as you stick rigidly to rules (for no real reson) you limit you fighting ability. as fopr the ridge hand thing, a boxer could just as easyly punch you in the neck area, but these are not the sorts of moves that can easyly be done against any decent fighter. also doing karate is unlikely to toughen you up enought to have a good fight with say a thai boxer or the like.

This just sums it all up, I would never do something jsut because it is required to get a grading, unless it was actually of use, there are other ways to focus with out doing a silly dance, that are more geared for fighting. the movements you are remembering are mostly unatural and the ones you need to remember are alot easyer as they are almost second nature. (simple) (not likely karate) stamina/endurance try mauy thai or any sport that has alot of cv work. trophies ? trophies of what, the person that can win a fight with so many rules it is not a fight, a karate comp is like a game where you have restrictions and the person that know the game best will win. no offence intended, karate is fantastic, just not for fighting.

When I started this topic I knew it would cause alot of talk, but did not think it would cause this much. and it has changed to something completele difrent. anyway I would like to finalise my view. 1) kata may well have great hiden moves, that you can only get by "understanding the kata, if so I ask why does someone not translate explain these moves, there is not need to be cryptic in the day and age. 2)If you want to learn to fight, dont practice a martial art as it is, simply learn to fight. There is not magical art, that makes you imortal. 3)If you have been doing Karate as a way to fight and nothing else, give it up and learn to fight. 4)If doing karate give you something else then by all means enjoy and continue practising it. 5) If you want to learn to fight, do things like thai boxing/valetudo but dont limit yourself to any number of arts/techniques. excuse the spelling.

I know this has been here for a while now but I just had to pick up on this, I do mauy thai/kick boxing, and I have done karate, KARATE IS NOT JUST ABOUT FIGHTING AND IF YOU WANT TO BECOME A REAL FIGHTER DONT DO IT. thats is it is is no where near as hard on the body as mauy thai or kick boxing, I respect karate ka but it is not real hard fighting, even in free style. I feel blue dragon should kick a heavy bag 100 times with his/her shin, and then spar with some kick boxers, and see how much "abuse" his/her body can take. _________________ "perfection, is something we all get closer too with training, but you will never get there and untill you accept this your mind will be limited in what you can achive" - Dave [ This Message was edited by: dafabe on 2002-05-30 03:14 ]

I do Thai Boxing and I have found that the reson that people hurt there shins is cos they try and build them up to quickly, I also had really weak shins, but after 5 weeks i already feel a difrance, the best thing to do is kick a heavy bag as hard as you can with out it hurting, and gradually build it up, this is really enjoyable and it feels great when you kick the bag quite hard.

the reson thai boxers win at thai boxing is cos the lear more how to fight "real" and it is closed to a real fight. it is like expecting someone that does bjj to win a point karate comp. they wont cos they don train with the limitations. an the specific technics that win points. But in the street a thai boxer is more likly to win as they are used to a more realistic fighting style.

Mauy thai -no ground work Vale Tudo - to be honest it incorperates evrything you want it to so the only down side is there is not real structure, but then again is this a bad thing?

thanx for you help, i must add thought i have been joging first thing in the morning before work/food, so I was told this burns alot more fat and the is less carbs and sugars in you body to burn, but you advice is good and I will take it into account.

perhaps I should have checked things out what I ment was the sparing tends to be heavey and with less protection, we also do 5 3 min rounds of sparing each time we go to class, I do like tae-kwondo I just would not chose it for efectiveness in a fight, I like graping to and am trying to become as complete a fight as i can