elbows_and_knees

I think I saw this is BB magezine two nights before. My cousin says that out in LA,Crips payed MA schools out thereto teach there gang members on how to fight.

That actually wouldn't surprise me. I know several bloods who boxed.

Isnt this the anime show where the guys some kind of bounty hunter or space pirate

yup. well... maybe... there are more than one. outlaw star is another. But most likely, you are thinking of the right one.

here's a nice link I came across:

http://www.osmalandrosdemestretouro.bigstep.com/generic.html;$sessionid$T4IIXIIAAAC1HTZENUFUTIWPERWRJPX0?pid=2

If this is what I think it is, then it's actually a valid system - and a very good one. Remember the movie "lethal weapon"? the MA style mel gibson used was based partially on this style. I haven't seen the tape or ad you are referring to, but it sounds like it may be '52 blocks'. it's a prison martial arts system that focuses on infighting. lots of elbows_and_knees. knifework, etc. It goes by several names depending on what region of the country you are in - 52 blocks, knockin and kickin, comstock and the most common name - jail house rock.

It's got it's roots in african arts - It's closely related to the infighting of capoeira - and is typically only taught to blacks - for this reason I kind of doubt the video you saw, but who knows, he may be legit.

Now that you've mentioned it, I've never trained anywhere where we trained the overhand with mitts - only on the bag. However, if you have some thai pads, I'm sure you can do it.

kansas is like the amateur boxing capital of the US... ringside boxing is headquartered there and hosts it's national tournaments there. Just try a search.

even with conditioning, they don't last long. When was the last time you saw a street fight last longer than 2 minutes?

1. adrenaline gives you a rush, but it saps your body and wears you out quickly. It's like a star man in the super mario games - temporary burst of energy.

2. when you lack conditioning, once you are sapped, you are done.

3. most fights happen quickly. sucker punches, multiple attackers, etc. the guy sucker punches and aggresses from then on. The other guy doesn't have time to try and attack - he just gets punmmeled.

Now, being that my second job is in a bar, I've been in some fights that have taken longer than a few mins, but that is because they were huge - like 10 or more people - and breaking all of that up is a pain in the butt...

I have gotten fed up basically with everyone saying that wing chun cannot compete with arts such as muai thai, the various forms of karate and other styles and am looking for advice or aid if available for transforming my wing chun into a competition art. Initially I will try point fighting then work my way up to k-1 type of events (screw UFC) but specifically does anyopne know the rules for/against stop-hitting or trapping? I know that in some competitions that my fellow WC players have entered the judges would not allow stop-hits or pak sao which is basically a slapping hand defense but am basically unsure of what the typical rules are. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

I haven't read this whole thread yet, so this may have been said, but the best advice I can give you is to train for the venue you want to compete in. WC by itself really won't suffice for an MMA competition. You will have to get some groundwork in. Also, you need similar training regimens in terms of sparring and conditioning. The thing that has killed most of the TMA that have competed over the years isn't their style, but rather their training methods - they simply do not train the right way.

Im not discounting chain punching, but rather poor chain punching. Many of the people I've seen who claim to be wing chun practitioners have no power behind their chain punches, which, just like a jab that has no power behind it, are almost useless. This seems to be the apparently problem with many of the wing chun practitioners I've seen as they sacrifice power for speed to make a martial art look cooler or more devestating to potential students.

Its not just getting hit that puts someone on the defense, but rather its getting hit hard.

I've had similar experience. Either that, or the ONLY thing they attempt is chain punches. Either way, they aren't using them effectively.

unfamiliar with cowboy bebop..

assuming it a movie. suonds worth checking out

Watch the series before you watch the movie.

I'm not really sure that you have to. In some anime, the movies are tied to the series, but this one is not. It takes place midway between the bebop series and doesn't really reference any events in the series, if I remember correctly.

- All MA are not ancient - muay thai for example didn't come about until the 1920's. Judo is less than 200 years old. TKD came about in the 1960's. freestyle kickboxing is fairly new...

Right, but these are modern codifications/refinements. I don't think there is a single MA out there (Although I'm sure someone will pipe up with a different opinion ) that is truly "ancient" in the form it exists today.

Also, every martial art can claim ancient roots. The modern version of TKD is just now 50 years old, but has roots and techniques dating from near 0 AD. Same for most kicking/punching martial arts.

Aodhan

Granted the root is older, but the root is not the style in question. grappling is the oldest form of MA and is found in all cultures. But judo is still new. The fact that it came from jujutsu is irrelevant to the fact that judo itself is new. It's not a refinement, per se - it's a new system. Now, jujutsu has changed since the old days, definitely, but it is still called jujutsu. judo is it's own system, based on the older style.

sure there is. I found two schools in syracuse with a quick search.

Syracuse Boxing gym NAAC

MUAY THAI Syracuse, NY (315) 474-7378

Its not the style thet makes people unable to take a hit, you must spar alot at your dojo to train your mind to focus on the match instead of the blw that was just delivered.

yes and no. If you are contact sparring and point sparring, then that will help. But another factor is learning how to do things, like rolling with a punch. This is not something that is taught in all styles. And even in styles where it is taught, it is not always adequately drilled.

I'd think since he was in the synidcate, that he had some kind of troubled youth. Therefore he is just an experenced street fighter, and has used part of Bruce's philosophy of using what works for him. Not to mention he probably got the best training available from the Red Dragons.

If you want to see the best fight scenes, go out and buy Cowboy Bebop: The Movie, Knocking On Heaven's Door. If you liked the show, then you won't be dissapointed in the movie.

I saw the movie like a year before it was released in the US. Loved it.

hey ive looked into capoeira i dont practice it because it is unavailable to me but it is a style of fighting, it started a long time ago when portugal inhabited brazil and slaves were forbidden to fight and there hands were always tied up, so the used a style which involved kicks and mostly only kicks, however they were not aloud to practice fightin so they had to make it look like a dance but at the same time use it to train, the later rebeled and fought off the portugese , then they took over brazil or somethin to that affect , didnt mean to go into a history lesson but it is a style of fighting, but ya most people now probly interpret it as a dance/fight rather than a fight,

To be honest, I don't think there is a lot of truth to the "they use the feet because there hands were shackled" thing.j Look at the maneuvers they do on the ground - even simple ones, like negativa - the hands are positioned pretty far apart. If they were shackled, there was A LOT of space between the chains. Also, I've heard an old saying that states: "the hands were meant for building, but the feet were meant to destroy" This alone tells me that the use of the feet is intentional as the legs are much stronger than the arms.

Well, i call it a dance art because its learnign to fight from basically a dance. It doesnt have the same feeling as a dance but they use instruments and music so it resembles a dance, just you get other thing sout of it.

thai boxers fight to music also... the music goes with the pace of the fight. I see what you're getting at though.

Uh, sorry to contradict you, but if your growing, you dont want to use alot of weight because this can stunt your growth. And plyometric training is training to get explosive power in the legs (i.e. jumping). A good way of doing this is DROPPING off a box or something then right away jumping back up. You dont want to strain yourself with that much weight.

plyometric strength is not just jumping. It does not have to involve jumping, but that is the most common format. Plyometric training can be done on the whole body, not just the legs. For the upper body, you can do plyo pushups, the neider press and medicine ball throws. you're 14, correct? I'm 27 and have been lifting since I was 13...

As far as growth goes, you aren't contradicting me at all. lifting heavy weight can damage the epiphysis - growth plat4es - of your bones. you can lift at that age safely, just do so in a higher rep range.

So more wieght, less reps?

Elbows_And_Knees, any news on classes around here?

I didn't go to class on fri - one of my students had his first fight last week (he won), so I had to go watch. I will see what he found out on wednesday. however, I did a search on my own and found this:

http://www.capoeirista.com/schools.html?q=United%20States&state=North%20Carolina

Yeah, those are cool. I plan on getting a subscription for that magazine also.

I wouldn't. On a whole, blackbelt sucks, IMO.

As for the world champion thing, there ARE world champs, but it is more of a limited world champ. If I am a world champ in judo, for example, then I went to the world tournament, fought against competitors from all over the world and won. The thing is that

1. I was only fighting other judo guys, not guys from other styles

2. That was a good day. on any given day, one of the other guys could have won.

3. there may be people better than me who for whatever reason did not enter.

Consequently, to say that you are the best in the world is a little misleading.

- All MA are not ancient - muay thai for example didn't come about until the 1920's. Judo is less than 200 years old. TKD came about in the 1960's. freestyle kickboxing is fairly new...

I may give my opinion on the others later...

I know the feeling. I have two jobs - that's all time management though. There's time in there somewhere.

I don't think leg strength has anything to do with it, personally. If you go up to a woman and ask her why she started kickboxing, she won't say "because my legs are strong and can be an equalizer to a man's arms" she will 9 times out of 10 say "to get in shape" - period. That is a major benefit that sport fighting styles have over traditional systems - the training involved. if you do bjj, wrestle, kickboxing, boxing, thai boxing, etc. you WILL get into shape if you are consistent with classes - it's inevidable.

That said, another reason is the fact that it is different. As I stated, the biggest reason is to get in shape. Sure, they can join a gym, lift weights, hit a bike or treadmill, etc. but that's mundane. They want something different. that's why things like tae bo, aeroboxing, yoga and pilates have had the explosion that they have had - they are not the ordinary, every day form of exercise.This is great as long as there is no illusion about what you are doing. any cardio kick place can get you in shape, but that will not teach you how to fight. You need a real gym for that.

I have recently been asked to teach both muay thai and tae bo style classes at my day job's gym - we recently conducted a survey to determine the interest level in such classes and not surprisiningly, more than 75% of the women were more interested in tae bo. What WAS surprising was that a little more than half of the men were interested in tae bo too...

Actually it was within context. BJJ came from judo, and hence has judo throws in it. Notice I never mentioned wrestling. In a bare bones bjj class, you will still learn basic judo throws, like o goshi, ippon seionage and tani otoshi. Also, if you ever attend a bjj self defense session, it revolves mainly around stand up grappling.

1. you can learn jkd. there are several groups - original jkd (jun fan), which is what I trained, jkd concepts, SBG, etc...

2. the anime never mentions what spike trains, only that he is a fan of a character with a name similar to lee. There are several references to bruce though:

- spike says "be like water", as lee did. I believe that was in the "waltz for venus" episode.

- spike uses nunchucks.

- spike throws fast, high kicks.

- one of the bounties is abdul hakim - kareem abdul jabaar played in a bruce lee movie with the name hakim.

3. studying the anime will not help - it's anime. It will NOT look like his fighting style, because they aren't that concerned with it.

watch naruto - do they look like ninja?

watch ranma 1/2 - does that look like kenpo?

watch fatal fury - does andy's style look like kung fu?

I could go on with similar examples all day. Just because a style is named in an anime, that doesn't mean the the charatcter using the style will look like a representative of that style.

4. Seeing the high kicks and jumping should be an indication that it is not wing chun, assuming that he actually does look like his style.

Oh, and the belt system in capoeira is usualyl the colors of the brazilian flag.

as with other arts, that varies. there are schools that have orange cords. Purple also. There are several schools that use multi color cords.

It is a dance martial art, but it is also very effective and has element sof other martial arts in it if you relaly look fo rit.

It's not a dance martial art... the art was merely hidden in dance. ALL martial arts have elements of other arts in them - there are only so many ways to strike or throw a person. bowing in shuai chiao = ippon seionage in judo. reverse punch in karate = straight right in boxing. double leg = same in judo, bjj and capoeira.... techniques overlap.