Andrew_Patton

hmm, interesting, I've never encountered a hanging makiwara that's like what you've described, I'm used to the rare rattan or bamboo bundles hanging from the ceiling. My questions are, is the bag just allowed to swing after being struck? and, how do you know you're hitting and not pushing thru the object if it's allowed to swing?

I agree, karate is the kihon kata, I remember sensei Yamashita talking about osae and not leaning but rather; using your hips, pushing out with your feet, etc. But, truth be told, every single one (okay most, not all) of the students, and instructors in this area, have forgotten and don't enforce it... in fact, theres a few with back and hip trouble that hace students who lean and mimic them exactly.

This entire concept would work equally well with fingertip strikes (come to think of it, pinan shodan has the 'pressdown' before the nukite does it not?) along with basically everyother Shorin Ryu strike out there... would this explain all the blocking while stepping forward in our kata?

I take it your hanging makiwara is a canvas bag then? Seems like I might have a purpose for that extra canvas I have laying around then...

Anyways, the walk in drills you speak of, are they all the traditional thru-step? (i.e. start in zenkutsu dachi, step feet together step forward with your 'back' foot) I do agree, you cannot learn karate (not just the chibana method) without hitting something, that's why makiwara and other equipment were widely implemented 'back in the day'.

And, final question, what exactly do you mean by 'opening' the opponent? i.e. raking the arm away, feinting, etc.

(It seems like I might have to make a trip to hawaii sometime in the future.)

One of my (many) complaints with this show was the obvious lack of a true "karate" style punch, the representive just squared up and wailed out a haymaker to be fair... honestly, I stopped watching the show at that point, what's the point in a show like that if you don't actually represent what you're supposed to?

Not hating, just saying... not karate.

I'm going to have to fully agree with ShorinRyuu on this entire topic, the fact of the matter is, if you aren't punching, kicking or blocking like you do in your kata you haven't begun to understand Karate fully.

I also wish to state that they are pictures of (I know there's others but can only remember one name) Motobu Sensei working drills with a partner, or preparing, and his fighting stance has one hand up, almost like a middle block, and his other hand is on his hip in the "retracted" position... a far cry from the typical 'hands up, chin down' stance used in most karate schools.

ShorinRyuu, I have one question, I know all about makiwara training for strikes, punches, kicks, shuto, etc. But do you work blocks on Makiwara also, or just on the heavy bag?

well of course the big yell kiai (as long as it isn't a scream (ewww...)) has it's spot in Martial arts, but it definately isn't the kind of thing you want unleashing when you throw that big punch or side-kick out. Like I said, I've found the same results while keeping my mouth closed, yet kiai-ing simultaneously. to me it just feels more natural

I think a kiai is a good thing, just if you keep your teeth and jaw closed, none of them hollywood, mouth wide-open screem at the top of your lungs typles of kiais for me... I do something that I've seen a few thai boxers (melchor menor for example) breath out and make a noise while keeping my teeth and jaw clenched, it works, adds power, and feels good.

To be honest, I'd questioned the 'traditional' (in quotations because we don't know how traditional it is) kiai method for years before trying it my way, and haven't gone back.

Hi Shorin Ryuu I was wondering if you could explain a little about what you mean when you say 'walk-in drills' and I have to say I think that the 'one hit, one kill', or 'one technique, total destruction' terms just mean you should know how to throw everything behind your techniques and be able to destroy something with every technique you throw.

I've always had a strange feeling that the Round kick was adopted from Muay Thai (or Muay Boran, etc.) they're quite similar and would explain the absence in kata. Also, I've heard that Kyokushin Karate was basically a japanese 'answer' to the Muay Thai that Mas Oyama saw in his lifetime. Once again, just speculation

And isn't Kakuto-otoshi axe-kick, if I'm not mistaken, that's a completely different kick from a crescent. Crescent kicks make impact with the side or bottom of the foot, whereas axe-kick makes impact with the heel.

I'm sure there's some techniques that aren't 100% linear and hard in shotokan though, but if there are it's more like 1% vs. 99% so yes, what DancingSteve says is the truth, basically.

Shotokan Karate has one of those "just hurt the other guy" philosophies, pretty straight forward, and right to business.

( a little late responding to this)

but, here I go anyways. Shamrock was DQ'ed for kneeing gracie in the back of the head from the bottom in the side control position. The commentators couldn't figure out why the match was stopped (it's simple, knees to the head on the ground are illegal, period) but somehow came up with the conclusion that it was because it was to the back of the neck/head...

overall okay event, would have been great if Shamrock v Gracie had an actual ending to it.

Randy doesn't just "still have it" he looked outright fantastic the other night. Supposedly Pat Milletich said that the first punch he threw rocked Tim bad enough he doesn't remember the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds! definately not bad for an old man. Not to mention, live and in person that place was crazy.

try the swords over at Kris cutlery ( https://www.kriscutlery.com ) the choices aren't very broad, but they're very durable and well made ( not to mention "budget level" cheap.

one word: repititions

other than that, plyo push-ups, one arm dumbell benches (rotating your hand from palm-up to palm down position through the rep) and Plyo band work-outs (the thick elastic cords sold by AWMA and Century for kicking practice.

to be honest, I've always questioned the validity of a crescent kick as a kick, many people I know use it often (I can't remember ever using it) UNTIL my head instructor taught us a section of Pinian/Heian Godan bunkai where the crescent kick is contained, just not as a kick, as a block to a kick, using the arch of your foot, just food for thought

Well, obviously sport and self-defense are different things, but there's been a few times where a bouncer friend of mine has had someone shoot a double leg on him while he was on the job, so it should always be a concern as far as self-defense is concerned. And, to add to that, "tackling" someone is usually a natural response to getting over-whelmed.

As far as sport; point sparring/kickboxing, use whatever works, MMA, typically uses what I listed off in my previous post, and for self-defense, just use whatever's most comfortable for you I suppose

of course cross, of course, but with either big/powerfull wrestlers or ones that are good at distance shooting, you're gonna have a problem drilling TD defense from a boxing stance, IIRC chuck liddell uses a longer stance than most strikers mainly for this reason, and Chute Boxe fighters work on being lower and more compact when fighting a wrestler, both of those tactics speak volumes when you think about the boxer stance as a whole.

shorter boxing stance with hands raised is well suited to head-movement / slipping punches, which a lot of 'traditional' martial arts (esp Karate, TKD etc) simply do not cover. Try to hit a boxer and likelihood is they won't block or parry, their head will simply not be there anymore!

Yes, but the added mobility/slipping abilities are a little hindered due to a smaller base, I believe if your feet are a little wider apart (think naihanchi bunkai stance) you're gonna have to sprawl out of an attempted tackle and/or keep from being thrown from the clinch (an element of "real fighting" many karate-ka forget about (even though the muay thai "plum clinch" is in Pinan/Heian Yodan))

I'm particularly impressed by their body movement when at close range - watch closely when a top boxer is against the ropes getting pounded and in a split second will turn the tables on his opponent and reverse the situation. May not be flashy, but its incredibly subtle, very 'advanced' and VERY difficult - give it a go sometime!

Yes, head movement/body bobbing is a good thing, but to much of it isn't so much, if you lean to far forward/change levels and stay there BAM! knee to the choppers (or uppercut/rising punch), if you lean to far back, you expose yourself to a body lock/bearhug.

Sure, a jab may not finish a fight outright, but many a boxer can pretty much take your head off with a jab - so bare knuckle, whilst it might not put you on your backside, it may certainly set them up to finish you shortly after

That's why I mentioned stiff jabs as being a good thing, I've seen a few KOs from them, and have been on the receiving end of one of those.

Firstly we have to remember Ryan is only 9 years old, is he really expected to deal with this kind of situation effectively and properly?

I dont think he is expected to, but that doesnt mean he cant. You have said a number of times how clever, intelligent etc he is.. i beleive in giving credit where credits due, which leads me to beleive that if this clever young man is faced with a couple of idiots trying to attack and bully him then he would be able to deal with it very effectively, using his brain more than any physical action, if he is taught how and practices it, like any other skill he would hope to obtain.

Exactly, I would also like to add, that age in Martial arts shouldn't matter to much, if Ryan holds a certain grade that's equal to an adult, shouldn't he be trained in how to keep his composure, walk away, talk his way out, or make a statement that he's not gonna be bullied (in any other way, physically or verbally)

Also, I'd take matters up with the superintendent, then if that does nothing, up with the school district, and just keep pressing them. The way 'bullies' are handled in schools is just a joke. What's with the slaps on the wrists, and the "boys will be boys" attitudes, it's a common problem, with consequences that last well out of childhood. The authority figures should be taking it as seriously as they can.

Its very possible to defend against multiple attacks. No one says its going to be easy(having to defend yourself against one person isnt a walk in the park) or that you will walk away without at least some damage, but in my opinion, preparing for it and training to deal with it is a far better response than to assume its impossible and give up.

I've done just that twice in schoolyard fights, defending against multiple attackers, even just using your art of choice comes down to confidence and the ability to act, your instructor should be working on that first and foremost when it comes to self-defense.

All in all, I don't think the whole situation sounds at all right, exploding in class, should be a push-up situation at least, and if there's a confrontation, punish both parties.

And, the last time I looked, it's the instructor's duty to explain everything beforehand and make sure everyone obeys the rules.

http://www.midwestkarateacademy.com/tinbeturtle.jpg

My own personal timbei crafted of purple heart and made to look like a turtle shell... a little to fancy for daily use, but I like having it

we practise Matayoshi no timbei as out timbei kata

Therein lies the problem - if he's essentially a good kid he won't want to fight even if he should because, as a kid, you're told constantly that fighting is wrong.

Exactly, you need to define that fighting isn't wrong in itself, picking a fight on the other hand is the issue you need to quench.

When I was in grade school/middle school (before zero tollerance mind you) my parents told me only two things I'd better not 1) start the fight (throw the first punch, etc.) and 2) get myself hurt; or I'd be facing consequences when I got home, and to be honest, I think once in a great while, when a bully is doing to much of their 'job' they need to get their up 'n comings.

And, to be honest, bullying (verbal or physical) is a horrible violence that I remember school staff not taking care of in the least, oh yes, those responsible didn't get to go on recess once in a while, sat in the principals office, had 'special' privaledges taken away, or had to sit w/ the principal during lunch, but their nature took over within a week of being off punishment, and they were back at it. There really doesn't seem to be any good "non-violent" solution that sticks with bullies.

How many times in training has your son been forced to deal with a situation similar to the one he faced at school? How many times has he taken part in a scenario from start to finish including the verbal onslaught followed by realistic aggression towards him leading to physical attack? How many times has the scenario been played out in class with all parties displaying real energy? And dont limit this to your son, how many times have you been placed in situations during training that you would most likely be faced with in real life? If these things arnt addressed in training and you cant deal with it under controlled circumstances, then ofcourse it will be intimidating and you will have no idea how to deal with it other than sitting there getting beat on. Start working the situations and feel the energy in training then all of a sudden the confidence you have is real and the intimidation isnt something new.

Very, very good points, I just wish to add, that I, personally have been in a number of scuffles when I was in school (victim of bullies and all, felt I was forced to defend myself on a few occasions) and 2 v 1 while not a good situation to be in is managable if you learn how to handle yourself, personally it's not a situation I'd ever want to put myself into, but with the proper training, and luck it's doable.

In my own case, I don't remember exactly what happened, it was a two on one situation in one instance, but I couldn't tell you what happened, I can just really remember being in the principals office, the principal chuckling about how they chose to take on the meekest kid in school and they both ended up with black eyes, bruises and scrapes. I guess I'd have to say, the problem is with how the instructor is teaching, not what. In a self-defense situation you have to learn to teach someone how to boost their confidence and believe in what they've been taught, you can have the best teacher's in the world but if you're not confident enough to do something, it means nothing honestly.

It's sort of like the example of the white belt who is first participating in kumite and nails one of the higher ranked students a good one confidence is a great thing in martial arts... now, cockiness isn't as great. IMO confidence should be the first thing taught in self-defense.

exactly, all I was saying is that throwing something out there that has no intent to finish a confrontation isn't really usefull (stiff jabs count under my 'usefull' heading) and training those kinds of things really isn't my concern at the moment.

Now, I do believe we've coasted a wee bit off the original topic

yeah, the more advanced techniques thing I don't think was meant towards boxing (a fellow member here Shorin-Ryuu wrote that) I think it's meant towards MAists in general who adopt a 'fancier' style... unless it's meant towards move like an overhand right or a shovel-hook.

and yes, "one hit, one kill" mentallity is just a little over the top, but pawing out a jab, or preparing for a 12 round fight can also be considered misdirected training (don't get me wrong, 12 rounds is impressive, just a little to much IMO) I'm simply stating, that the boxing mentality hasn't really gone over very well with myself. Even though I do appreciate the sport in itself.