Kickbox

That's right Streetfighter. While other arts try to mould the fighter into their peice of reality JKD helps the fighter find his "groove". The fighter may look like he is doing WC or kali or boxing but in JKD effeciency is anything that scores. JKD is no art but it can look like any art...or not. I saw where someone said JKD is like the numbers 0-9. You can make up any number from that base. 0 can be JKD and 87641 can be JKD and 05984736 can be JKD. But JKD is never "only" one number or set of numbers. If you have three punching techniques, three kicks and a few takedowns/submissions you have the base for any combination of techniques to combat any self defense situation. The techniques may come from any system. So JKD is really the process of discovering what works for you. That's why they say you can't really teach JKD, you have to experience it and when you experience it your experience may be different from mine. Guro Dan said JKD is like a vacation. You take your vacation in the mountains. I take my vacation at the beach. WE both enjoyed our experience on vacation.. Dr. Beasley explained that JKD means "Using no (particular) way as the (only) way." He says that is what JKD is for.".self discovery. It's the FREEDOM to choose what works best for me. How do you define Freedom? Well define JKD the same way."

I didn't read the entire thread. Someone may have already mentioned this method. I was attacked by a Dobberman a few years ago. Som kids had made him agitated and I just happened by. When he came at me to bite I instinctively hit him with a palm smack right on the top of the muzzel . It actually stunned him. A similar thing happened when a dog tried to attack a neighbors cat. A swift smack to the snout and he didn't want to play any more.

The story goes that in 1962 Bruce Lee met Prof.Wall Jay. Prof. Jay was a jujitsu master but was very successful at coaching players in judo tournaments. Bruce asked how he did it and Prof. told him that his secret was to use techniques that the judo players were not prepared to defend against. To be successful you must go out side your system. Some say this was when the seeds of JKD were planted. Bruce found out in his skirmish with Wong Jack Man a few years later that he was unprepared to go out side his system. So he began to study other arts and systems. His goal was not to achieve rank in other systems. Not to become an instructor of different systems. His goal was to lear wher other systems are weak and to develop skills to combat any fighter. His creation of JKD in 1967 was an attempt to answer the attack from any fighter. Study other styles, take what you need, then drop the style and make the skill your own. JKD is no "one" style but a reflection of the knowledge from any style that the individual chooses. You can read this at mawn.net JKD: the Next Generation.

Right again. Have a nice day.

Your previous post noted that you are 16. That is more that sufficient information. Have a nice day.

Shure. No problem. And when I tell you the name of the sifu you will be suprised. But first tell me your name and the name of your sifu. First you must gain trust before it is given.

No piont in naming names. He made a error in judgement. Never fight a fighter at his own game. Always approach the opponent from a position where you are strong and he is weak.In no other art/sport can the fighter beat a boxer in a boxing/hand fighting match. No art/sport is equal to boxing in a boxing ring when only the hands can be used. Boxers make millions for world title events. If WC was better in the ring the manager would hire the WC trainer and fire the boxing coach. The subject of this thread was could Bill Wallace fight? Yes he could. Using the rules he fought under and the weight classification he was the best there ever was. Take it from someone who knows.

I know what you mean. It is not fair to judge arts by limited experience. In my case I trained as a boxer/kickboxer before taking wing chun lessons from a wing chun instructor. Six months in to the instruction I grew tired of his arrogance. This is not to imply all WC instructors are arrogant. At any rate I asked him to suit up and spar. I smacked him around. My left hook seemed to connect to his head at will. He kept telling me to protect my center line but he could not hit me because I would not stand still. My experience was that this certified WC instructor could not compete with a boxer when we put on gloves and had a full contact match...hands only.. When you mentioned WC and Bill Wallace the kickboxer I immediately thought of my experience in the traditional art of wing chun. Let's say that WC is an exellant art and may fare better in a street fight. In a boxer's ring the boxer has the advantage.

The Cadwells are very wealthy and don't need the income from JKD. The two people that have most benefited fron JKD are you guessed it Dan and Paula Inosanto. They have made $100K or more per year for about 20-30 years off of a chance friendship with Bruce Lee. That is why they fight for the name and they are against anyone that threatens them. I am a Jerry Poteet fan, no doubt about it. I have seen the BL JKD and compared it to the JKDC/PFS/SBG etc versions. I am a consummer. They want to sell to me. I can make up my onw choice of "research" arts. Bruce's JKD worked. And if those who dropped it to play with sticks were serious they would have discovered that Bruce had the right system..you just need to practice. You know what? It is O.K. to disagree. Dan and Paula Inosanto set the stage for complaining that everybody is wrong, or fake but them. It's time that people heard the other side of the story.

You will see a thread called "Inosanto letter". Paula and Dan Inosanto claim that they taught "90% of all classes" and Bruce Lee only taught 10% of his classes. I think that this is pretty arrogant of Dan and Paula Inosanto. This letter really really says what they beleive (We are the "real" JKD everyone else is a fake!").They try to make the case that their JKD instruction is better than the other JKD instructors. They try to stop you from considering the other instructors because their JKD is better. In the rest of the letter they state something like their version of JKD was an improvement over what Sigung Bruce Lee had. That is why Guro Dan and Paula changed JKD to make it better. Better than what? Better than the art that Sigung Bruce Lee taught them? Sigung Lee taught many people. To really understand JKD you can not afford to take only one view unless it is the "real" JKD taught by Bruce Lee. On the tapes by Jerry Poteet Mrs. Bruce Lee says that Mr.Poteet teaches the exact JKD as taught by her late husband. She never makes that comment about Dan or Paula Inosanto. I suspect that may be why Guro Dan will not support the Bruce Lee Foundation. But then you have to think. Why would Mrs.Bruce Lee approve of the BLF? Because she is not satisfied that Guro Dan is teaching the art of JKD. He teaches the JKD cocnept.

O.K. But no one has defeated Bill Wallace. He retired undefeated.

The principles like non-telegraphic,independent motion etc stand on their own. Anyone can apply the principles. PFS/JKD has applied the principles differently than JKDC. I just don't want to see a JKD group advertise that their "evolved" expression is superior to what Bruce Lee presented. You see so many advertisements for JKD that you cannot be shure what you are buying.True Bruce Lee had no knowledge of advanced FMA or BJJ but there is a significance in being able to go to the source. I am shure that some JKD instructors do not teach the same art. Some versions change each year. Each has his own opinion of how JKD should evolve. There was only one Bruce Lee and because of that we need to always be able to view/practice/identify his art and expression of JKD. I commend the BLF on taking the unpopular stand to defend BL/JKD.

The only fake JKD is the one that tries to exclude all others. I tend to agree with those who say that JKD can evolve. There is now a PFS JKD, a JKDC, OJKD, SBG JKD and MMA JKD. All follow the Bruce Lee principles. aLL ARE VALID. I also agree with the Bruce Lee Foundation in that there should always be protected a JKD that represents the historic method that Sigung Lee used. Otherwise JKD could eventually evolve into all sorts of different sub interpretations. The BLF has made a wise decision in creating a sactuarary for the original/authenic/real/classical/Pre 1973 or what ever you want to call it JKD that Bruce lee taught. They also can, and they are the only group that has this ability, legally police the teaching of the historic JKD and bring pretenders to court for using the name Bruce Lee, jeet kune do and Jun Fan and the JKD logo/design. That is a good thing for JKD.

Guro Dan's system is called the jeet kune do concept. It blends the training philosophy of JKD with a mix of different martial arts like BJJ/FMA/Thai boxing and a lot of arts that Bruce Lee did not get to train in. Guro Dan has evolved the JKD into the JKD concept. If Bruce Lee showed up at a JKDconcepts school he would have to take lessons in order to keep up with the JKD concepts instructor. Bruce Lee would have to become an apprentice instructor in JKD concepts and work his way up the ladder. But the same thing would happen if a JKD concepts instructor could go to Bruce Lee's school. He would have a hard time fitting in to the class. It's two different arts. Sort of like WTF tae kwon do and the 1960's Korean karate style tae kwon do. They have the same name and some of the things are similar but the arts ave very different. You can argue all day long that TKD is just TKD but it's not. And like 1993 UFC fighters could not win over 2003 UFC fighters. Things change. Some people liked it when the UFC was art versus art. That was the real UFC. Now the UFC is mano e mano, man against man, style means not so much. I liked the first UFC's best when you could see the different arts and then see how the arts were hold up. The real JKD was what Bruce taught. The new JKD is the concept.

I read somewhere that a company called the Bruce Lee Foundation has fileded for a trademark on jeet kune do and won. The Bruce Lee Foundation is owned by Shannon Lee who is Bruce Lee's daughter and legal heir. A web site forum had info that said Guro Inosanto has taken down all the Bruce Lee photos from his school and website and started calling his style mixed martial arts. Even Paul Vunak's advertisement uses the MMA style name. I've heard that the BLF is going to check to make shure people that teach JKD teach the real JKD designed by Bruce Lee and not just the new JKD/MMA from California.

The wing chun fighters that have appeared on the UFC have lasted only seconds. They get set to protect center line and boom they are open to a takedown. When the wing chun fighter meets a boxer boom he gets hit with a left hook, because the boxer doesn't care about the center line. In boxing you move centerline, reposition,move. Mobility always beats the static stance. It's easy to say "I could beat Wallace" but funny thing no one has.

Shane, I saw your comment on the Inosanto letter thread. When I was at the conference I had the privledge to talk to Dr.Jerry Beasley who happens to be Mr.Lewis' first 8th dan. Mr. Lewis' website gives a date of 1995. He said the Paula Inosanto letter is about 15 years old and was trashed by Inside Kung Fu magazine as being lies. They were afraid of a law suit if they printed the letter. I found out that Dr.Beasley was granted certification to teach JKD from Mr.Lewis in 1993 but Dr.Beasley said he just wasn't interested in trying to open a JKD academy. He teaches with Mr.Lewis in kickboxing and karate. Mr.Lewis said he met Guro Dan Inosanto for the first time in 2004. I have read Mr.Lewis' new book on jeet kune do and became interested in all these facts. Chuck Norris has a lot of great things to say too. Boy it would have been great to have been training back in the day!

Exactly! I agree 100% . Guro Dan's McJKD concepts were created long after Sigung Lee passed away. In the book the Guro's opinion differs from all other opinions of JKD. How about Mike Stone saying he couldn't really learn from Bruce Lee because he din't really think he could fight. The champions had no respect for the non competitors.

If you have seen a police statistic like that ( tilted to grappling) its because the officer cuffed the suspect and put him/her on the ground to do so. The vast majority are all stand up confrontations in which the suspect may initiate a futile, often symbolic exchange but is quickly apprehended. Police are trained to go to weapons at the first sign of bodily harm. They don't grappel on the ground except in a worst case senario. An untrained fighter will go to the ground only in desperation or if he is out of gas or off balanced. We are a culture of strikers and head hunters. Better to devote time to defend against the sucker punch than to lean to pass the guard. Better still learn it all.

In the 1990's UFC matches it was all about grappling. They lost viewers. Promoters encourage striking becasuse it sell. You have to be a sophisticated grappler to understand what goes on when the fighters are positioning on the mat. Any viewer can watch and enjoy the strikers. Because they pay more fighters are willing to stand up and duke it out. It hurts more but it means more fans and more money. UFC is after all a sport in which viewers dictate who fights. In the street fight few opponents are sophisticated grapplers. Most go to the ground only because they are clumbsy, they get tired and fall, or they get off balance and stumble down. According to published police reports about 75% stay upright. If you study how to fight and you are physically fit you win by ground or stand up. The question is how stupid are the street fighter bums in your area? Train for them not to fight in the UFC. UFC is a sport. We see what the promoters think we the buyers/consumers will enjoy and buy again. Ever see a ring girl at a street fight? UFC is entertainment. Don't base your opinion on a fantasy.

Remember in 95% of real fights you only go to the ground when you can't finish it off in the clinch. The poll should have clinch range or ground range. Look at the UFC the top fighters stand up. Only the grappling matches feature ground finishes.

I'll admit it I am a fan of Joe Lewis as the founder of American kickboxing . I have his new book "How to master Bruce Lee's fighting system". The real JKD was all about fighting and had very little if anything at all to do with the Filipino , Indonesian and Thai arts except that Sigung Bruce may have used the words on a philosophy paper once. Too bad Sigung didn't have a stable of fighters like Master Lewis. People would have more respect for JKD. Anyone else read the book?

Here's my take on "having no form". Having no form can be that you lack form as a beginner. Bruce feels that having no form relates to the fact that his art JKD has no form in that it has no limitations. JKD can look like a punching art one time and a grapling art the next time. You have to flow with your opponent which means you can't be stuck in one style. JKD techniques are not limited to one style and they do not maintain a form that resembles only one style. As DR.Beasley says all styles are about limitations. We can identify a style only because it has boundraies. A TKD kick is performed only like a TKD kick and never like a Thai kick. Two arts ,two sets of limitations and conventional forms/katas are all about making the individual trade his freedom for security so he fits in to a style. JKD can look like TKD or Thai or neither. It has no form. Remember Kurt Russel in the THING ( movie). The ailen was JKD..it had no form but could take the form of its prey. Humans confined to their form could not understand how the alien could be like any one of them. JKD is hard to understand by anyone that has a form ( which means style).. Bruce says be like water because water has only the form of the object which contains it. Diferrent object ,different form. JKD has no form. Like Dr.Beasley explained at his seminar everyone wants to understand JKD in terms of their own limitations but Bruce thought JKD was beyond limitations. Problem is that the people that teach JKD are limited to what they can perform. That's why Bruce closed his JKD school in 1971 ( read John Little). JKD is just a philosophy. When you make it an art it is no longer JKD.

True. I liked the movie and the attitude.

From what experience I have had the Japanese taught the Koreans karate. From 1909-1945 the Koreans were under the control of Japan. After thr US liberated Korea in 1945 the Koreans continued to practice karate. In Korean the term karate translates as Kong soo do meaning "empty hand" or Tang soo do meaning "China hand". Because the Koreans dispised the Japanese for occupying their country they refused to call the art karate and made up stories about ancient Buddist warriors using tae kyon, subak and other things. All knowledge of specific techniques of subak or tae kyon were lost. Only the concept or idea of a fighting art remained. Some Korean authors point to ancient statues that sort of look like TKD techniques. But actually the original statues held wooden spears. The wood wore out over the centuries leaving only the statue with no spear that looks like it may have been a karate technique. Pretty smart but everyone is not fooled by that scam. To bolster Korean independence Gen Ghoi proposed tae kwon do as the new name for karate in Korea in 1955. The Koreans decided on tae soo do and eventually in the 1960's agreed with tae kwon do as the new name for Korean karate. My dad practiced Korean karate in the 1960's at the same time it was being converted to tae kwon do. The WTF invented a new way of doing the Japanese karate kicks,blocks.punches, forms and fightoing methos. It was still karate but with new names and new ways to perform the skills. By the 1970's the WTF style was actually a new art, not karate but a new Korean way of performing the forms/kicks/sparring etc. You won't see the facts in any book about TKD because they do not want to give Japan any credit. The tang soo do people are more honest and admit that their art originated from Japanese karate. The new WTF TKD is an actual Korean martial sport now in the Olympics. Tang soo do has maintained its martial art and does not stress sport. I hope I do not offend anyone that has been taught that TKD is an ancient art. I had to research this topic for a college paper and a dan test.