Daedalus

That is a sterotype- I was a bouncer for years and heard that I have seen 2% go to the ground and that is usualy only after one is too tired and beaten to stand. Why would you learn to take a guy down on purpose if your in a club, in a line , at the subway, at the air port, at a bank.....Thank about it and you will realize it's useless unless the other guy has studied and grapples you. Where exactly were you a bouncer at? And how many actual confrontations were you exposed to? Also this is somewhat offtopic but you listed Bushido as a style of martial arts in your Avatar. Bushido is not a martial art I was wondering why you added it to your "styles" list.

Sure man I'm always looking for new friends who share my passion for Martial Arts! Anyway I'm not sure where Jason trains but you can come and roll at Megatons for a week without paying so you should come check it out. Anyway I'll be started at ASU by then and will probably be doing some of my training with the Pankration Club.

Wellington "Megaton" Dias, but we usually call him Meg.Yeah I know Liddell and Silva aren't "grapplers". They are Mixed Martial Artists! That means they are great strikers and grapplers. But both of them have WAY more grappling experience then I do and I consider myself more of a grappler because that is how I end my fights.

Yeah Silva doesn't "just" study BJJ also. He is a blackbelt:http://bjj.org/a/people/silva-wanderlei.html Some people in some of the other threads try to make it sound like because Silva and Liddell beat most of their opponents with strikes that they are only strikers but as you know Silva is a BJJ blackbelt and Liddell is a Division 1 wrestler. Yeah you are absolutely right, just because you learned a few takedown defenses doesn't mean you can nullify someone's grappling.

Do me a favor and go get ADCC 2003. Abu Dhabi is basically the super bowl of grappling. Marcelo Garcia won the all around competition(no weight restrictions). Garcia was the shortest man in the whole tournament. I think height has MUCH more to do with striking then grappling.

Your right I only have as much "proof" as you do:personal experience. I'm only speaking about the people I know of personally of course.

BTW I'm 5'4 and 130lbs and can tap out people in my class that weigh anywhere from 160-220, because I've always been rolling at 100% with bigger guys. My technique HAS to be better then theirs to keep up. Actually I find the system has forced me to be alot better then I would be otherwise. But again we are all entitled to our opinion and I respect that you guys have your own.

I'm not trying to say BJJ is the end all of MAs. What I am trying to say is that groundfighting prowess doesn't come from someone showing you a few moves; it takes hours and hours of experience against a live resisting opponent. That is all. I believe this is the only way to truly nullify groundfighting technique. Example: I used to train in Wado Ryu Karate at the Scottsdale Martial Arts Center. We used to have classes where we would train various armlock, chokes, stand up grappling, and takedowns. We went through all the motions and kept doing this until the we got to the point where we could do them at full speed on our partner. But now after training in an exclusively grappling art my eyes have been opened to thre fact that without training those grappling moves against opponents resisting 100% that I would have extreme difficulty applying them in a real live situation. I sparred with one of my old class-mates who used to dominate me in stand-up matches. I'm 130lbs and he is 185lbs and in very good shape. Well our match started standing but after the first few swings at eachother I quickly moved in and took him down to the ground. He was totally helpless on the ground even though we had trained grappling some in class. The sheer difference in groundfighting experience against a live opponent was what I believe made all the difference once the fight got to the ground. Since some of you misinterpretted me before I thought I should make my point very clear by summarizing it for you guys. Summary:Practicing groundfighting techniques without sparring is not enough to save you from even a beginner groundfughter who has practice against opponents that defend with 100% of their strength and technique once the fight hits the ground.

I'm curious to know what version of Tae Kwon Do's history these volumes subscribe to. The hundreds of years old version or the less then 60 years old version?

I believe you mean CQB which is the generic term the military uses for close quarters situations. CQC was an actual martial art developed by William Ewart Fairbairn and Eric Anthony Sykes two British armed servicemen.

At the place I attended it took about 2-3 years to get a blackbelt if you were in relatively good shape. They had belt testing every 2 months or so, and they charged a small fee for belt promotions.Sounds about the norm. An 8 week cycle. TKD is easy, you just got to stick with it. How far did you get? I have a quarterly (12 week) cycle, every week has a focus and it just repeats per cycle. I got to red belt before moving to Arizona where I took up Wado Ryu Karate at the Scottsdale Martial Arts center.

At the place I attended it took about 2-3 years to get a blackbelt if you were in relatively good shape. They had belt testing every 2 months or so, and they charged a small fee for belt promotions.

I see your point. I guess the system is more then just application of technique or fighting prowess, but also character. Under the system used at my training hall things like character and discipline are obserevd by the head instructor during class when you might not even know you are being watched.

I have heard of this system. It would not work for TKD, I will never endorse the sport style as a reference to rank. And that's what it would take. So how is this the ability to force another to submit less of an indicator of martial arts skill then then whatever other systems do? I can't think of any other reasonable way to measure someones skill then live matches against a living opponent.

I go to Megaton Brazillian Jiu Jitsu Academy and there is no belt testing fee whatsoever. Infact there aren't even belt tests. When the head instructor feels your ready he gives you a belt.

I currently train in BJJ and we don't even have belt promotion testing. A person is usually considered for promotion when they are consistently tapping out people of a higher rank. When someone is ready to move up in rank the head instructor gives him his belt at the end of class. Our belt system is as follows: White Blue Purple Brown Black Black takes 8-10 years in most cases.

Well if your talking about the legend of the origins of Wing Chun you might be correct but I would take that origin story with a grain of salt.

Why not use a heavy-bag to "condition" your knuckles? That way you can practice hitting in combinations against a human like object.

I dont understand your post could you elaborate? Although a Kyokushin trained Karateka would be a good match for the average boxer the average boxer would beat about 90% of average non-kyokushin karateka. P.S. I studied Wado Ryu at the Scottsdale martial arts center.

I completely disagree. Can you name ONE now I'm not asking for alot of examples but can you name ONE fighter that is competitive in the mixed martial arts world that does not have extensive grappling experience? THe reason why it is dominated now by supposed strikers is because they have learned and understand the groundgame and for no other reason then that.

Which means when the time comes you won't be able to perform it on someone else in a real fight. When people say they've spent "some" time on groundfighting means they pretty much went through the motions. Even though I was shown how to do an armbar from the guard the first day I started training in Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, do you think for a second after even drilling it the whole day I could have caught someone in it the next day in class? NO WAY!!! It took weeks of BJJ training to be able to use that armbar correctly on someone who was fighting back.Yeah my school "teaches us how to sprawl and avoid taledowns" but that doesn't mean no one ever takes me down during sparring.

I could break a single board with my jaw but that doesn't make it an effective weapon in an unarmed fight. Boards have nothing to do with fighting they only have to do with board breaking technique and self-esteem building.

Actually Chuck Lidell did not do it in any way shape or form. First of all Chuck was a NCAA wrestler. Notice how people have a hard time taking him down? Well it has nothing to do with his Kenpo training that's for sure. Secondly if you would check Eddie Bravo's website you can plainly see pictures of Chuck Liddell learning Brazillian Jiu Jitsu from Eddie Bravo. Also Chuck has extensive kickboxing experience. To say that Chuck Liddell uses only ONE style is absolutely uninformed.

So what do you use to gauge what works in a real fight? Your own thought experiments? Theories? Training sessions in your Dojo? I've very interested to know what you base your knowledge of real fighing on. As far as I am concerned if I ever got into a street fight I would wish for some kung fu master who uses palm strikes instead of someone who has boxing experience. Anyway I'm dieing to know where your knowledge of real fights comes from? I'm still waiting btw...

[Kyokushin]>[boxing]>[90% of all Karate Styles]