Dark Shogun

Hey, the Mongols had much contact with the Greeks and Romans. They could have taken MA with them to China and Japan. On the other hand I don't think that when the Mongols attacked Japan they would have had much time to chat with the defending Samurai and teach them MA. Mongol MA could have influenced Chinese MA when the Hans invaded China. Thus Greek and Roman MA could have influenced karate that way.

Thnks guys. I've had the same problem in that all the info I've been able to find is on modern pankration. There is not much on the ancient stuff. Maybe If I could find some techniques which exist in pankration and Chinese MA, karate etc. I suppose looking at the big picture everything influenced everything, but I really am looking at major influences. I'm also intrested in philsophical influences. I've found that western and eastern philosophy(ie not religon) are more similat than different. Could the ideas of Aristotle have made their way to China or even Okinawa? They were perserved in the middle east for some time.

I enjot MA training. I do it because I like it, not because I need it.

Grretings lads and lasses, lets talk some more karate history (I like history). From what I gather karate came largely from chinese arts which came from indian arts which came from greek arts. I believe that this is a general line of decent but there is obviously some cross polination of styles from time to time. I'm really looking from more information on how greek MA were sent to india. Who sen them? The army, yes but who? Were greek MA activly taught in india? Who in india learned them and how did they affect indian MA? Did yoga come from the greeks or was it created by the indians? etc. Some web sites wound be helpful. Thanks everyone.

Thanks Gunyo, I'll add those to my vocabulary.

Ruthlessness. This is very effective in a street fight. Point sparing will not teach this but MA will. Point sparing is just an excerise. Also, a good point sparer will not telicast their movements very much although they do use a low vocabulary of techniques.

What is heiden bujutsu? We also do MJER iai before jo and after auxilary class.

In my dojo we train one day in SMRjo, the other day in the SMR auxilary arts (sword, tanjo etc). I have done all the Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu kata and all the Uchida Ryu Tanjojutsu kata. I haven't done any of the other weapons. On the same days we also have a MJER session. This may seem strange because I have heard that many schools o not teach auxilary arts until after the entire jo sillabus has been learned.

Lots. Okinawan Goju Ryu to Shotokan to Shito Ryu to Shukokai to Koryu Uchinadi and back to Okinawan Goju Ryu. It's coz I traveled alot, but I'm settled down now so I'll alway's be Goju for me.

Kusarigama is part of our weapons system but I have no learned it yet. Here's a question. Has anyone ever done tameshigiri(test cutting) with a kusarigama or kama?

Sai for practicality, katana for enjoyment. (plus I keep a can of karate in my back pocket).

Also most boken kata are 2 man kata although you can do each side individualy. If you want solo kata you may wish to look into iaido. This is usualy done with a real sword and not a boken although you can get a saya(scabard) that will fit a boken. In any event, find an instructor and good luck.

For me it was sai and bo when I did Shito Ryu karate. Now I'm Okinawan Goju Ryu and we don't do any weapons, but thats ok because I also do katana, wakazashi, jo and tanjo.

The crooked finger theory may hold true. I cannot tuck my right thumb in when forming a knifehand because of an accident with a chandelier when I was a lad. I can keep it pretty flat against my hand tho.

Hitting first is still preferable to hitting second, and that's what point sparing can teach. On the other hand it dosen't teach one to hit with decent contact. So the occasional bout of point sparing may be of some use as an excercise. It can be part (a very small part) of a balanced diet. There are differnt ways to spar and they all have their pros and cons. It may be of value to spar a few different ways.

We utalise a simlar style of randori which is basicly NHB given that we don't seriouly injure one another. This is started from a standing position or clinch and is somtimes done 2 on 1. I haven't done any point sparing since my old tournament days.

In every dojo I have trained in (Goju, Shotokan, Shito Ryu, Shukokai, Kendo) Sensei has informed us when we are ready to grade. In my current dojo gradings are conducted over a continous period. Sensei is ALWAYS watching and grading although he informs us when he is thinking about grading one of us. We have no 'grading day' as such.

I've been thinking about point sparing recently. The kind where when one fighter hits the other the match is stoped, point is awarded and the match then continues. One thing this kind of kumite teaches that continuous kumite does not is to not get hit. The goal is to be the first to strike, not to strike the hardest. On the street, being the first to hit is very important because if you make the first hit your opponent is stunned and you become more likely to make the second hit, and so on. So geting in first is very important. This thought came to me while watching a boxing match with my brother-in-law. In this match the boxers would move in together, one would hit once or twice and the other would take the blows adn hit back 3 or 4 times. In the end the boxer who hit more times won on points. Now even tho he won the match, this stratergy would get you beaten on the street. Who on the street would just take a hit from and attacker and then dish out bigger better hits? I'm not sating that point sparing is better than other kinds of sparing, I'm sating that occasional point sparing may have it's value in that it teaches one to hit first. What you all think?

15 rounds in a boxing ring would require a high level of endurance, however, a street fight will not go for 15 or even 1 round. So all that endurance is more useful in the ring and less useful in the street. That said I wouldn't want to take on a pro MMA fighter or a skilled TMA fighter on the street. I'll stick to fighting untrained schmuks thanks.

That's weird. I once trained with a Shukukai club called 'Samurai Karate'. Strange eh?

Treebranch is right. The samurai systems of fighting were 'koryu', literally 'old style'. Each koryu is a system of fighting containing one or more of the following arts: (kenjutsu, iaijutsu, bo/jo/tanjo/hanbojutsu, sojutsu, naginatajutsu, jujutsu, taijujutsu, ninjutsu, kusarigammajutsu, and lots of others). In recent times kenjutsu has evolved into kendo and jujutsu has evolved into judo. Karate is something totaly different.

Tessen is used in conjunction with jutte and taught as an axilary weapon to Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo/Jojutsu. Aside from the jo the art includes, sword (long and short), tanjo, jutte/tessen, kusarigamma and hojo. I have trained in SMRjo for over a year and I have not learned and other weapons aside from the jo and swords althought we do occasionaly practice tanjo. I believe most SMRjo schools teach the jo first and teach the 'axilary' weapons when all the jo kata have been learned. Our school is different in that we also teach sword from the begining.

I believe jujutsu is Japanese (ie koryu) and juijitsu is Brazilian. The link between them is judo.

Judo came from jujutsu and jujutsu came from sumo, so they must have something in common. Also, the fighting arts of okinawa have been influenced to some extemt by sumo and jujutsu. So all 3 (sumo, jujutsu and karate) will have common elements.

I think there are 2 kinds. One is a fan with metal 'ribs' but otherwise normal. The other is a metal club which look like a folded up fan. I think these are cheaper. Any pop search for 'tessen'.