Kane

I passed Shodan after about 6 years. Pretty fast if you ask me. Most people with no prior MA experience take longer.

I've looked for a Shotokan school forever, this one seems legit, and its less than 1 block from my house! I just never caught it before, its not in the yellow pages or anything.

SKA is a none-profit organization teaching traditional Shotokan karate - SKA dojos are not commercial schools, which is why you will not likely find them in the yellow pages or even in the phone book. You also won't have to pay for gradings, and won't have to sign any contracts.

I suggest you go to a few classes and see if you like the style and the people. Good luck!

Which one did you end up trying, novastorm?

If you're a beginner it may be hard to judge which one's right for you and what the differences really are. JKA vs. SKA... I started training Shotokan with one of the two groups, then switched to the other and am feeling a lot more at home there. There I found what I had always been missing in the previous flavor of Shotokan - and it wasn't simply about the people, because I have practiced with various clubs from both groups. I am mentioning this not knowing which group you picked, simply because I believe that each of us starts karate for different reasons and with different expectations and needs. Keep an open mind, and if you feel - later on in your training - that you are missing something, don't quit Shotokan, but look around and try the other flavors of Shotokan that are out there. There may be a flavor that's better suited to your needs than the one you are trying now.

What you, Kane, described sounds like what my friend told me. Shotokan doesn't go stripe crazy or anything does it? If two people have a white belt and one is 8th kyu and the other is 4th, how can you tell?

Shotokan Karate of America is but one organization teaching shotokan karate. There are many others, and most of those do have color belts for each kyu level. In SKA, there are only three belt colors (white, brown, black), and there are indeed no stripes. The belt of an unranked beginner will look the same as that of a 4th kyu whitebelt, the belt of a new 3rd kyu will look like the belt of a 1st kyu about to test for shodan, and the belt of a shodan (1st dan) is the same as that of a godan (5th dan).

You asked how one can tell the difference between an 8th kyu and a 4th kyu whitebelt. The answer is that you cannot tell by the belt, or even by such things as which kata they are working on, as whitebelts in SKA are taught all Heian kata and Tekki Shodan pretty much from the get-go. But you can tell an 8th kyu from a 4th kyu quite easily by the skill level of the people in question.

I was talking to a friend who trains shotokan karate, and she says there are only two or three belt levels. There was white and black (of course), but I think there may have been another belt level. Can someone clear this up for me? Thanks.

It depends on which shotokan organization your friend's club is part of. Most organizations and clubs habe colored belts, but some don't. Shotokan Karate of America for instance only have white (8th to 4th kyu), brown (3rd to 1st kyu) and black (1st to 5th dan) belts.

Anything over 4 years, and aside from having a hard time remembering the material, I would also question their dedication. If it takes them over four years to earn a black belt, and the school does not require a four year period, I would doubt they are applying themselves very hard.

Now, if the school requires four or more years, I would be suspicious. What exactly do you teach that requires that much time to earn a black belt? All black belt means is you have mastered the basics. That takes four (or more) years? Many schools that teach this way also have 15-20 color belt ranks. Really what that is a way to scam students for more money.

Ouch. I could not disagree more. Unless Tae Kwon Do is an extremely different system from other MAs (and I assume here for the sake of TKD that it is not), then your statement is a curious one indeed.

Are you suggesting that the longer it takes to get to BB level, the less decicated the student? Learning is a lifelong process, and someone who tests for and passes their first BB rank after e.g. 7 years of training will not automatically have worked less hard than the expremely talented student who manages the same in 3.5 years (I have not seen anything less, and even this is rare in the system I train in - and btw, we only have white, brown, and black belts, not "15-20 color belt ranks", and no testing fees). Personal ability and potential vary, and dedications, though helpful, cannot change this.

As for whether it takes as "long" as 4 years to "master" the basics, I can only say that I am sure that a talented student can learn the fundamentals of all basic techniques, as well as the sequences of all forms within a year or less, but this does not mean that the student has "mastered" anything. Please do me a favour and try each and every one of your basic techniques against a non-co-operative opponent, or another heavy, strong training aid, then honestly ask yourself whether the technique works, not to score a point in competition, but to the full extent the technique was meant for (usually this means completely disabling your opponent from continueing the fight). If it does, every single time, good for you. This is what mastery of basics should mean, to my understanding, and I do not believe that many martial artists can claim this after merely 4 years of training.

Feel free to disagree, of course.

Funakoshi Gichin, Egami Shigeru, Ohshima Tsutomu

I used to see this in more sports oriented karate organizations all the time: everyone passes, and if they don't a temporary half-grade is awarded, and a retest a little while later rectifies this into a fell grade.

Now that I practice with a traditional organization, testing does not mean passing any longer. There is no testing fee, and for kyu ranks, every student has the right to test (though no-one really tests against the instructor's advice) at every grading. And yes, it happens that people don't get promoted to a new rank. It's part of the process. For shodan, I think about half of the candidates don't pass. The higher the rank, the lower the percentage who pass.

I'm really happy with this. I don't need the guaranteed promotion. I don't need to be babied. I would feel insulted if I received a half-rank. Pass me or fail me - but don't try to sweet-talk the failure. If you can fail a test, it makes passing it so much sweeter!

It has been my experience that many schools add additional levels, or stripes, to each color (and many additional colors) when they have a system which charges for each belt test.

Good point. We have three colors only, and no fees for testing.

Here's another. No pretty colours for us:

white - unranked

white - 8th kyu

white - 7th kyu

white - 6th kyu

white - 5th kyu

white - 4th kyu

brown - 3rd kyu

brown - 2nd kyu

brown - 1st kyu

black - shodan

black - nidan

black - sandan

black - yodan

black - godan

Doing a kata 3 times a day for a year is a great idea. Just think about how amazing it'll be at the end of that year.

A thousand kata is a good start, I agree. And practicing your kata every day is a very good idea - I wish you much luck and fun with your new 3-kata-a-day plan . Please understand that I don't want to dampen your spirit, but even after 1000 repetitions the kata will probably not be 'amazing'. I'm aiming for 5000 at the moment, and while I'm almost halfway by numbers, my kata is nowhere near amazing, I'd say it's not even adequate, yet. I still get so frustrated, and then so elated when I 'get' something. But do your 3 kata a day for a few years, and you'll reach 'amazing' eventually

And yes, practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. That's why 'bad' kata don't count.

I guess I never realized how few belt colors we really use at my university club until I read this post!

 

We only have 6!

 

White - 9th Kyu

 

Orange - 8th, 7th

 

Green - 6th

 

Purple - 5th, 4th

 

Brown - 3rd, 2nd, 1st

 

Black

 

We don't have any system for telling the difference on sight between same color/different kyu belts. So if there's an orange belt, and you have no idea what specific kyu he is? Ask

We use:

white - 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th kyu

brown - 3rd, 2nd, 1st kyu

black - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th dan

Congratulations, vertigo! Hopefully this will be the start of a long and fulfilling karate journey .

Tips? Hm.. pay attention in class, listen, observe, and enjoy! Oh, and don't be discouraged by the overwhelming novelty of what you'll learn. Remember - even the sensei was once in the position of being a complete novice.

ummm...just don't get paired up with someone who likes to do ippon seinogi and you should be pretty good :]

Hehe.. we just did that in class last night. Fun, too!

It does sound like improper rolling technique

I think so, too. I'm nowhere near comfortable with falling, yet, but am getting loads better.

Pretty soon you'll be able to roll over a row of classmates evil knievel style.

I do hope so, though it still feels far far away. Rolling over one classmate is still scary enough for me

Gichin Funakoshi left us 12 in his book karate-do Koyhan. Some go by that.

Actually, just FYI, Funakoshi describes 19 kata in Karate-Do Kyohan:

Taikyoku Shodan

Taikyoku Nidan

Taikyoku Sandan

Heian Shodan

Heian Nidan

Heian Sandan

Heian Yodan/Yondan

Heian Godan

Bassai/Bassai Dai

Kwanku/Kanku Dai

Tekki Shodan

Tekki Nidan

Tekki Sandan

Empi

Jion

Jitte

Gangaku

Hangetsu

Ten No Kata

It could be that you may not have tucked your chin in or that you body is not used to it.

I think this is exactely what happened. I must have rolled over my head too much and aggravated some old neck injuries.

Or being it your first class, you can almost expect certain aches or discomfort. It is "new" to your body.

Yeah, I had expected some muscle pain, but I am actually not in bad shape, and the pain was not muscular!

I'll just be extra vigilant and pay close attention to proper technique.

Thanks for your helpful explanation of the roll, WW! I think I indeed rolled too much over my head, instead of along the diagonal across my back. Also, extending this idea to the arm and leg makes the concept a lot clearer for me. Thank you.

Also, i have a personal concern. You indicated that it was your 'first' day in class. Did they pair you up with someone to throw or be thrown, or just focus on rolls and falls? By all rights, you should only be learning how to fall at this stage.

No, no. First class was on breakfalls and forward rolls from kneeling, then later crouching. The second class repeated these, then added falling forward from standing, then from standing over an obstacle, then with further reach, etc. I am quite pleased with the progression. It seems well thought out, and safety seems a big concern.

ummm...just don't get paired up with someone who likes to do ippon seinogi and you should be pretty good :]

While I have no idea what seinogi is just yet I thank you for your reply. I had my second class and I feel much better after that one, so I think I'll be fine.

I'm a karateka, and I figured I should learn how to fall properly. Hence I am contemplating joining a judo dojo and I attended my first ever judo class last night. Today my neck hurts like hell! Here's my question to all you judoka out there: If you started judo as an adult, did you experience neck pain / neck problems after your first few classes? Is that normal? I am asking because I have had some neck injuries in the past and am wondering whether maybe grappling arts are not for me with my rather weak neck..? Any thoughts on the matter?

Just make sure you don't hurt the soft tissue in your knuckles. If your knuckles bruise of swell, ice them and hold off bag training for a while. Belive me.. you do not want to damage your ligaments!!

All blackbelts in our dojo wear a black belt, no stripes, no outward indication of rank.

It sometimes amazes me how obsessed our culture is with needing to have a visual representation of our ability. It's like we're not confident in our ability enough to be satisfied with a simple belt.

 

A gi used to be a person's smallclothes, but now there are different kinds of "authentic" uniforms for all martial arts. The belt used to be white for someone who wasn't a black belt, and that was it. Now there are a multitude of colored belts, stripes, half levels, etc, etc.

 

It's all a little ridiculous, but then, I'm not innocent either. It's just very interesting that our society (typically western society) is so obsessed with being able to "prove" our ability by saying "I have a 2nd degree black belt!" or "I'm a purple belt!" or whatever. I don't think the founding fathers of karate ever went around telling people how good they were. They just knew it. And that was enough.

 

Wap

I agree, WapCaplet. During the first years of my karate journey I trained in dojos that used the color belt system. Now I train with a group that only uses white, brown and black. No stripes, no rainbown colors, no patches , no half grades (if you want to fail me, fail me, but don't give me a half grade - I'm an adult, I can take it). The only reason for the existance of a brown belt between white and black, as far as I know, is so that both whitebelts and blackbelts know who the targets are Seriously now, though, I much prefer this system! Wearing a white belt for the first few years prevents beginners from being able to run around after a year of training saying "I'm an orange belt! I'm in the intermediate class!", or "I'm a greenbelt! That's the fourth color in my system. Only two more colors before back!" The focus isn't on belt color, but rather on ability. We still have kyu grades, but you can't tell them from the uniform. You have to look at the person's technique instead.

All blackbelts in our dojo wear a black belt, no stripes, no outward indication of rank.

It sometimes amazes me how obsessed our culture is with needing to have a visual representation of our ability. It's like we're not confident in our ability enough to be satisfied with a simple belt.

 

A gi used to be a person's smallclothes, but now there are different kinds of "authentic" uniforms for all martial arts. The belt used to be white for someone who wasn't a black belt, and that was it. Now there are a multitude of colored belts, stripes, half levels, etc, etc.

 

It's all a little ridiculous, but then, I'm not innocent either. It's just very interesting that our society (typically western society) is so obsessed with being able to "prove" our ability by saying "I have a 2nd degree black belt!" or "I'm a purple belt!" or whatever. I don't think the founding fathers of karate ever went around telling people how good they were. They just knew it. And that was enough.

 

Wap

I agree, WapCaplet. During the first years of my karate journey I trained in dojos that used the color belt system. Now I train with a group that only uses white, brown and black. No stripes, no rainbown colors, no patches , no half grades (if you want to fail me, fail me, but don't give me a half grade - I'm an adult, I can take it). The only reason for the existance of a brown belt between white and black, as far as I know, is so that both whitebelts and blackbelts know who the targets are Seriously now, though, I much prefer this system! Wearing a white belt for the first few years prevents beginners from being able to run around after a year of training saying "I'm an orange belt! I'm in the intermediate class!", or "I'm a greenbelt! That's the fourth color in my system. Only two more colors before black!" The focus isn't on belt color, but rather on ability. We still have kyu grades, but you can't tell them from the uniform. You have to look at the person's technique instead.

The trouble with lightweight gi tops is that they have a tendancy to tear easily.

 

I find that they also come open quite a lot, which is a bit embarassing as a woman. To stop that happening you have to wear something underneath, which makes you just as hot as wearing a heavier weight gi. :-/

I hear ya, aefibird, but I have to say that I don't really care about the top coming open thing any more. I used to wear a shirt under my gi top at my old dojo, but have stopped doing this quite a few years ago now. The guys' gis constantly come undone, showing their chests, and since I have to deal with seeing their hairy chests they will just have to deal with seeing my sports bra every now and then. I reveal more at the beach, that's for sure. It's just too hot to wear a heavy gi or an undershirt in the summer.

As for the tearing, we don't do a lot of grappling, but if we do and I know about it in advance I just wear a heavy gi. For teaching I always wear at least a medium weight gi.. something about a proper appearance, I guess.

Someone should really come up with a dri-fit karate gi!

Seriously, though, until some company starts making a hi-tech fabric gi I suggest simply wearing a light weight gi during the hot and humid summer days. I have a couple of very flimsy gi tops for those very occasions.

Sure, wear your t-shirts, but if your sensei is like mine and answers "No." when asked about wearing t-shirts and turning on the fan in our un-airconditioned dojo, I can only recommend the light-weight poly gi-top.

It'd be nice not to be the newest student though, I mostly train with greens and blacks.

Consider yourself lucky to have many senior around to train with. It'll bring your level up faster to be the junior student in the class.

And don't be intimidated. The others were once the newest student, too.