wolfman

When i said sloppier i didnt really mean "sloppier" just less regimented then the forms. When i saw some of the hits performed it really just reminded me of a guerilla swinging his arms. You still need to do it with proper body connection and everything. On trapping i guess it depends on what type of trapping you mean. Wing chun type trapping wouldn't be used. Do you mean smothering your opponent arms as you overwhelm him with attacks, or knocking limbs out of the way? I was taught to mostly to do that stuff as far as trapping goes. Fisherman your in colorado do you know william de thours? I think he lives their he's coming to tampa this weekend.

I've done hsingyi and am now learning bagua. What u said about hsing yi is right on except for the trapping. That really wouldnt be emphasized in hsing yi. Hsing yi is a blasting art which means it always wants too power thru stuff. It trains you to have body connection (which is learning how to use the whole body in every strike). But training body connection also means building stabilizing muscles in the your legs and torso so u dont lose your posture. A lot of people look at the five elements and think thats how hsing yi has to look like when you fight, but the five elements are really for excercises. You do lines (forms, kata simple to learn) of each element and do them over and over again to train your body to move correctly (like not over reaching). This also trains your legs to be really strong. Fighting wise it should look a lot sloppier, more like a gorrilla fighting. The five element fighting is more concept stuff and pp stuff too. With hsing yi training you to be powerful and to just power thru stuff bagua takes that power and trains you to be more evasive. Now hsing yi trains to redirect and be evasive too but its real focus is developing power. So with bagua your hits should be just as strong as hsing yi but you should be able to move a lot better.

Whats fish hooking? I've heard this phrase often but never understood what it refered too. Why is it illegal in nhb events?

wolfman wrote: So Shorin Ryuu was the retracting hand ever used to grab a weapon? I've done a few Indonesian styles that had a lot of hand chambering to the waist, and for them it was always to withdraw a weapon. shorin ryu wrote Forgive me, but could you clarify this? By this statement do you mean was the retraction ever used to grab an opponent's weapon and pull it off to the side? If so, I guess that could be the case. I could see that as being a valid technique. I think it would be more effective to control the person's hand or arm rather than the weapon itself in many circumstances. If you try only to control the weapon (although there are certainly ways you can do this depending on what weapon it is) it becomes a match of who is better at manipulating the weapon in question. I mean reaching toward your waist to withdraw your weapon in your holster or something.

So Shorin Ryuu was the retracting hand ever used to grab a weapon? I've done a few Indonesian styles that had a lot of hand chambering to the waist, and for them it was always to withdraw a weapon.

From what i know of other martial arts the withdrawing hand (or the hand that gets chambered to the hip) is suppose to be chambering to withdraw a weapon like a knife or stick or something. I havent done any type of karate, but it seems to me this was the original intent behind the withdrawing hand.

Ive done Hsing i for 1 1/2 yrs and started Bagua 2 months ago.

I have been doing pentjak silat for about 5 years now. I've also learned from Richard Clear i go to the tampa school.

I do Hsing I I've been doing it for about a year. You are taught 5 primary forms(simple to learn) that you do over and over again.The five elements are Metal(splitting), water(drilling), wood(exploding), fire and earth(round). These are the basic fighting principles of hsing I. The first thing you learn is body connection(structure) and how to move with it in the forms. Hsing I practicioners train to stay stable, always having their legs underneath them, never overextending. The forms help with that. Hsing I is all about power and over powering their opponents. They do this by training to keep their structure and moving the whole body as one unit. Every punch has whole body power behind it. Hsing I is about 50% strikes and 50% grapple, but most people would think its 100% strikes. There is some kicking mostly to knees and shins. It mostly uses its arms for fighting and feet for stepping. If you saw a Hsing I guy fighting it would kinda look like boxing but you'd see his whole body move as one very tight unit.

Thanks for the picture and explanation WhiteShark, that looks good. I think you make a good point about them blocking wrong. I'm more of a visual person so it's difficult for me to see what people describe (sorry Delta1 but feel free to post any more links to kenpo clips). For those who think the fighters who broke their arms trained in "tip tap" sparring, I can't say. But they were muay thai fighters. There were only two or three fighters who weren't. Again check their site http://www.mkmknockoutpromotions.com/news.htm

Thanks for the explanation Delta1. I've seen a few kenpo vid clips from a website you posted. It reminds me of Silat which is what I've done for the past 5 years now. I've only done Hsing yi for about a year. Are there any muay thai guys out there? Tell me how you guys would defend.

Thanks for the response Delta1. I've heard to get out of the way or duck as a first option. When I thought about it I figured a two arm block (if you were going to block) would be best, but I didn't see anyone do it in the kumite. Although kicks face were rare they mostly kicked to the legs. So is the double arm block the muy thai defense to that kick? Also I don't see how you would " trap off the universal". Could you explain. Also the kumite was filled with muy thai and kick boxers so I don't think they trained with light or no-contact sparring. I went to the kumite again this year and the fighters jumped in and out a lot more. There wasn't as much contact, and i dont remember many high round kicks being thrown. I guess nobody wanted to hurt thier arms. Here's a link to the kumite's website http://www.mkmknockoutpromotions.com/news.htm the arm breaking happened in kumite IV.

What is the muay thai block for a round kick to the face? I ask because I was at a muay thai event last year kumite shin-do in Tampa, fl. It was open to any style, but they were mostly muay thai fighters. Anyway two people got broken arms from high round kicks. They had their arms up to block them but the kicks broke their forearms. So what would a good block to that kick be? I posted this question in another topic but I didn't understand the answer. Hopefully I can get a few peoples perspectives on this.

I read some of your other posts so I know your one of those lineage freaks. If your interested you should do some research on Willem de Thouars since a lot of our stuff comes from him. I asked about baji earlier because i heard their was a lot of variety within that system. In Xingyi most of the training focoses on holding the Xingyi postures and doing the Xingyi lines. Which are the five elements metal, water, wood, fire and earth. as well as other chi gung excercises to stregtghen the body. Then there are different methods to do the lines. most of the xingyi i so at my level is suppose to build up the body and the legs.

I read some of your other posts so I know your one of those lineage freaks. If your interested you should do some research on Willem de Thouars since a lot of our stuff comes from him. I asked about baji earlier because i heard their was a lot of variety within that system. In Xingyi most of the training focoses on holding the Xingyi postures and doing the Xingyi lines. Which are the five elements metal, water, wood, fire and earth. as well as other chi gung excercises to stregtghen the body. Then there are different methods to do the lines. most of the xingyi i so at my level is suppose to build up the body and the legs.

It's alright. Do you have any experiences with xingyi or baji?

All right i looked in my notes Xingyi=form mind boxing or Intellectual boxing. I didn't want to look this up before because so many of these threads turns into "thats not how you translate that name its this slightly different way." I didn't want to argue symantecs. I wanted to see what other people did in their training, and what their experiences was like.

The outcome of fighting does not mean that it is true Xingyi. Legit per lineage, has nothing to do with how well someone fights. This brings up an interesting question. If your a new student you really couldn't know what was legit or proper unless you've already learned the style. A catch 22. I seen brawlers fight, if one was to claim they know/teach Xingyi, how would one (per newcomer) know if that is legit. See my point is even if a teacher was not legit he could still have a lot of knowledge about lineages and such. If I were a newcomer how could i tell? Even if I researched it on the web, that wouldn't help. I'd have to learn proper Xingyi in order to spot the fake. People can fill your head with great theory all they want but if they can't do it then they can't teach it. Now, dont get me wrong, I mean no offence. But you don't strike me as knowing all about Xingyi. Most instructors/masters, per system such as this, will have their student learn about the system, not just a fighting aspect. Therefore, your instructor has either: A.) Not taught you and had you had not leared this. B.) He, himself, doesn't know. A thorough check is needed. Caveat Emptor I don't understand how you came to this conclussion. You haven't asked me a single question about Xingyi. I thought I explained the sources for the material was given but i couldn't recall. One source is Willem de Thouars or "Uncle Bill". If you don't know who he is its kind of meaningless to mention him. If i dazzled you with my knowledge of chinese history and language would you believe i study good Xingyi. I was hoping this would be a thread about actual Xingyi training and application. Why don't you share what information you have and I'll tell you if thats different from what i practice.

I know my instructor is legit because i've seen how he fights with it, and I want to fight like that. My instructor has talked about where he got his information I just don't remember where he learned the xingyi from. Either way I'm more interested in learning how to do it and fight with it than anything else. Even if my teacher did teach all the ways to spell xingyi and all about its lineage it wouldn't really mean he's legit anyway. If it works thats all that matters.

I don't know their translations or history/hierarchy. I do have an instructor and I know we get the info from a couple of different sources. Some directly from china others from xingyi instructors here. So I don't know the exact lineage. Their philosophy for fighting is to be aggresive and to stay on the offensive.

I just know xingyi and baji come from china. And how to fight with them.

Doughboy you've done baji too. Can you tell me about it?

What is the muay thai block for a kick to the face? I ask because I was at a muay thai event last year kumite shin-do in Tampa, fl. It was open to any style, but they were mostly muay thai fighters. Anyway two people got broken arms from high kicks. They had their hands up to block them but the kicks were too powerful and broke their forearms. So what would a good block to that kick be?

I have been doing xingyi for about a year now. What questions do you have.

Well if your going too rely on pressure point strikes you'll have to be a human calendar knowing what points are active and at what times of the day their active. Or your actual striking can have a quality of hit that activates a bunch of pressure points no matter where you hit. Thats the explaination I got from William de Thouars.