Ripper

The reason I asked why you want to build up bone density, is that I can see no good reason for doing that. What's the use? For karatetraining (even full contact) you usually don't hit your knuckles on hard surfaces. For self defense it also has no use when you put it against the risk you get into a fight. For that slim chance of getting in a fight conditioned knuckles is the least you have to worry about. If you are in a fight every day you might benefit a bit from it, but than you have to ask yourself why you are in a fight everyday. The risks of injuries and other health problems already mentioned earlier are too high for me.

and why do you want to do that?

I don't think it's the style you have to worry about too much. More important is the club and its members. Do you like the members and the way you train with each other? Do you like the way that is being teached? Those things are more important than the style you choose.

I don't see why you want to condition your knuckles in the first place. Maybe when you want to show off by breaking bricks and stuff, but otherwise?? Why take the risks on injuries? In normal karate training you don't have to condition your knuckles. It's better to emphasize your training on other things. Hitting a bag on itself is good training; just use gloves.

Well, I haven't read it myself, but I heard mixed opinions about the book. But now you mentioned Patrick McCarthy. A bit on a sidetrack, but if you ever get the chance to train with him, please do. I've had the pleasure to attend to one of his seminars last summer. He is a man with a lot of knowledge of MA's and he knows how to teach. He does it in a friendly and very amusing way.

And to not to be the one who is always nagging......... I agree mostly on what WW and WCKM are saying. I only missed an important point (if not the most important point); the person who is doing the MA. You can train all you want, but a "sissy" will never become a "warrior" (I'm talking metaphorical). It might, however, help a bit in the good direction.

Well, I quote someone else now (thank you, Fish), who is saying the same as I am all along: I've done exactly the same as you Bart. I runned sporadically too but now I finally do it regularly and I am looking forward to it also. Karate was always a constant factor in between. So for me it was not due to karate. AFAIK it's because I finally got rid of a very busy job and now have the time to do it regularly. That was the most important change in my life while other factors stayed pretty much the same (including karate). So if your change in life was starting a MA and after that you started to run regularly, then yes it could qualify. Otherwise.....

Thanks for that response WCKM. You are honestly trying to come up with a basis. That's what I'm looking for, Jade. You started off very good WCKM, but then I tripped over "That is a fact". In what way is this a fact? To me a fact is something that is scientifically proved. Do you have that? Maybe a scientific article or something like that?

As you said it yourself; we are just discussing each others point of views. I am not trying to change other peoples minds; I am just trying to clarify my point of view. Why do you ask this? Do you want me to shut up because I have another point of view?

I really didn't know I was doing that. I do know that I'm not always very subtle in my posts but that's probably partly due to my limited knowledge of the english language and my laziness. I usually try to say things in as few words as possible. And sometimes my posts are not read the way I meant them. Not to say this is the fault of the one that's reading but to say that I didn't write them clear enough. It is never my intention to insult anyone. I only attack people's arguments, never the people who make them. If I do, you may hit me. This is just because I'm a big fan of the KISS-principle. I like to keep things simple. The way you explained it.........no I rephrase that; the way I read it, it sounded too complicated to do that in an actual fight when the pressure is high. I just didn't think I would be able to do that in an actual fight (but that could be because of my own limitations offcourse!). That wasn't my intention. This is one of the disadvantages of this type of communication. Maybe if you showed me this in a dojo I immediately would have said; "Ah, that's what you mean!" or "I didn't know this was possible." Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try. ??

Then you read it wrong, because that's not what i said. I did? Sounds pretty much the same to me. To me it sounds much to complicated and ellaborate so I have a hard time believing it. Well, as you said, you "haven't really thought about it." Taking things out of context, are we? I'm not here to get converted either. I'm just trying to give you arguments of how I think things work and I'm always interested in arguments of others. That's why we are here in the first place, right?

You would think that after more then 1000 posts Sevenstar would know by now how that quote thing works.

Haven't been here for a while and see what happens.... To me they are not very different. Making better is trying to become better. Perfecting is also trying to become better. When I am training I try to make a better punch or in other words I am perfecting my punch. That's all I was trying to say. You asked what my point was. Was this your point? To me this is not important for this thread so please give this a rest. Then your other issue about 'exclusive to MA'. I used other sports to make a comparison. Many people think MA perfect ones character....oops! make ones character better. In other sports they don't ask this question. And then someone said this: I was explaining that there is not much difference between MA and other sports. And another one of your problems solved. Now again about the real issue. and then Jade goes on about being less shy and so on. My point was (and still is) that you cannot say that your character changes because of doing karate or any other MA. There are so many things happening in your life besides karate that you cannot say that you are less shy because of doing 100 front kicks. You have all kinds of relationships, you grow older, you marry/divorce, you go to school, you work, you get fired, etc. All these things together make you in what you are today and not just by training a MA. I do believe however that a healthy mind lives in a healthy body. So if someone picks up any sport and does it regularly they also feel good about themselfs and when someone feels good about themselfs their surroundings probably will notice that too. Furthermore someone who does a MA and sticks with it for at least a few years is a certain type of person. For example, you need to have a certain degree of self discipline to do hundreds of punches and kicks or doing that same kata again and again. But that self disicpline was already there and is not something that is due to MA.

Grrrr......had a nice and long answer but it's gone. So here's the short version. To me it sounds much to complicated and ellaborate so I have a hard time believing it. I do know that after years of training my body can take hits better. I don't know why. It's not because I do it the way you described. It's also not because my body is physically better trained (stronger muscles, etc.). Why not? I usually spar with my left foot forward. When I spar with my right foot forward it feels like getting hit on the right side of my body hurts more. My body is equally trained on both sides so that can't be the answer. Maybe my left side of my body is used to getting hit and my mind is getting adapted to these hits, while in fact the hits have the same impact on either side? Haven't really thought about it. The way I read your post, you said that you can't teach or train a lot of things doing it semicontact. I say you can. Also the type of flaws you mention above. Just let a black belt spar a lower belt or a big one a smaller one and let them go fullforce (using many techniques and not fullcontact). These flaws will get apparent. Also in a healthier way, which is very important to me. Going to the office with a black eye is also something you don't want to do every week. I do agree that if you must go to the limit, going fullcontact every now and then is a way of doing that.

You can use these examples in tennis or soccer also. It's not solely for karate. How do you do that mental training? Can you show me some drills to 'perfect my character'? You train these things in other sports too. Again, this is not something exclusive for karate. You think? I think there is a difference in MA schools and MA's. Mostly schools are very devoted to receive your money. MA's are very devoted in self development..........but isn't every sport?

Agreed. Shotokan is very, if not too, ellaborate for combat training. If you want combat training do Krav Maga or something like that. Don't do Shotokan. I hope this was a joke, because otherwise it would mean that everyone that does Shotokan will get arthritis. I still haven't.

Sorry Jade for ruining your world, but to me this is all bogus. Why would karate 'perfect your character'? It is just a sport like tennis or soccer. Why wouldn't it happen there? Where is the difference? How do you know you changed because of karate? Maybe if you had not done karate you would have gone through the same changes. Maybe it was just a part of growing older. People don't get better characters just by doing karate. There are enough people doing karate who still are obnoxious.

That's interesting; how do you do that?? With the definition I just gave in the other post, it's perfectly possible. I do the same when I spar with someone. If my opponent has a flaw and he doesn't get it I let him feel it. So, no problem there. That has nothing to do with training full or semicontact. It depends on who is training. In the past there where enough people who chickened out when we where training for semicontact-championships.

I've had my share of semicontact sparring too, and believe me; there is enough full contact. My definition of semicontact is; on the face only skintouch but on the body you can go full force. That's my objection too with fullcontact; my health is very important to me.

You don't get my point Mart. I said it's all games with certain rules. If you ask a semicontact person to fight full contact you might be right that he will loose (it also might go the other way; as I said it's the person, not the style that makes the difference). Now change it around. Why don't you go to a karategym and fight to their (semicontact)rules? You seem to think that full contact is the real thing while it isn't. Neither is semicontact.

Just try to get the basics first and don't try to learn everything too fast (for example all katas in one month). The basics are the foundation that will last the rest of your 'karate-life'. Asking what food to eat sounds a bit too much to me. You are not training for the Olympics or a World Championship. A good exercise at home for a beginner would be to study your first kata piece by piece.

BTW, your title is a bit generalized. I'm not saying Goju ryu is bad for your health (and I don't think anyone else here), just training that particular kata in that particular way. Just to be sure...

I've read some stuff too that it's not good for your health (can't remember where). As long as you are not sure I wouldn't want to train that way. Why not ask your doctor?

Probably paying a lot of extra money !!

Bragging is so easy behind the keyboard.