MadCapoeirista

Also about Gen. Choi being a black belt....I'm not sure what belt he got before he flunked out of college and joined the army but im sure it wasn't black.

Look at these videos...http://www.angelfire.com/bug/yaetnal/ Still think TKD comes from Taekyon?

That last link there is the book I was talking about. Looks like someone posted the translation on the net. Cool

I gave the reason for this in WTF earlier in this topic. I sort of agree and sort of don't. All they would have to do is adapt and it would still be the same it's always been for you. Just because hand techniques are absent in Olympic style sparring doesn't make it easier to handle a taller opponent.

A more even playing field? Most (I'd say over 90%) scoring kicks in WTF competition are to the body. I competed seriously for 2 1/2 years and have only been kicked in the head twice and have only kicked someone in the head twice. I don't agree with this at all. To accept this you must believe that all arts, wether with a sportive focus or not, coming from Asia are biased towards smaller framed individuals. Do you? Another thing, I'm a short heavyweight mens fighter...I'm 5'9". I usually had to fight against people at least 2-3" taller than me, most of the time they were taller than that 2". I agree that I was a tiny bit faster, most of the time but fighting someone with longer limbs means you have to pass through their striking range just to get into your own, if you can make it. There's more to fighting than speed. I'm sure you agree. Do you have experience fighting in an Olympic style tournament(against someone much taller than you even)? Just curious. Most WTF heavyweight fighters in the BB men's division are not slow by any means and control the ring very well making it hard to move around them.

As simple as that sounds Tuf, the process of doing something like that wouldn't even be worth the hassle.

That history is bogus. I know because TKD can be traced back to shotokan. The very first kwan, Chung Do Kwan's founder was a student of Funakoshi during the Japanese Occupation. Also from speaking with people who have access to some of the kwan founders (those that are still alive) and students (who are now high ranking masters) of those founders and know them personally. And through one of those people I got access to a somewhat new text on the history of TKD, done by non-partial historians (non-MAists) that, unfortunately isn't availiable in English. Also, Korean MA throught history has been heavily influenced by the Chinese. Just read the Muyedobotongji, you'll see. One argument people also use is the statues at korean buddhist temples...well, all Buddhist temples have guardian statues in martial arts looking stances. The only Korean MA that seems to be unique to Korea is taekkyon, which many believe TKD came from...and it did not. I've seen taekkyon and it is quite different from TKD and influence is even denied by the taekkyon practicioners.

Taekwondo has roots in karate(shotokan mainly). Tangsoodo was/is a name used by some of the kwans (schools) before the name taekwondo. Some still use this name, ie the Moo Duk Kwan. So, TSD (being an older name for what became TKD) also has roots with karate and is generally closer to it than most TKD is. Usually TKD or TSD scools with karate in the name do so for recognition purposes. Just like how when TKD first arrived in the states, the teachers called it Korean Karate because that was familiar to the Americans (karate had been in the US for awhile by then, along with judo).

I would say that is a flaw in the school. At our school we work our hands every class, do some kickboxing/boxing style drills, and also do hand work on mitts (we also do some basic ground work). However, TKD is primarily a kicking art, if one feels incomplete or the art doesn't fit...I don't see anything wrong with supplementation in another style.

I just feel that the Olympic TKD, because so many people watch it, gives the general public a bad misconception of what the arts are really about. The majority of martial arts in the world are NOT played like a game, but rather taken as serious practice for the purpose of self-defense, not sport. But do people see this on a nationally televised basis? No. SS, I still don't see how you can blame this on Olympic TKD. I've seen more ISKA sport karate championships on TV than I've ever seen of TKD. In fact, the only Olympic TKD I've seen on TV was the Pro TKD matches years ago, which isn't truly Olympic style format. One style can't be responsible for a miseducated public. Does the public know about all the thousands of MA there are? No. Can they tell one MA from another without prior knowledge? Not likely. Do they care? Probably not. It seems like to me you may be pointing fingers. I would say if you're that worried about it, don't even worry about it and focus on your own training. No offense..

I think it's a huge and common misconception, even among other taekwondoin that all Olympic stylists do is spar and train to spar. Not true, most of the student body of a school will 1.) be dojang champions (never compete but maybe good at sparring w/peers in class), 2.) Focus on other things and maybe go to a tournament just to see what's up. The students that are usually at tournaments, especially at BB level and at State and National events are people that choose to be doing it at that extra level. They choose to do the extra more sparring oriented training in ADDITION to everything else. Often times...in my experience this training enhances their normal training/techniques. You can develop and enhance attributes one would need for self defense with competition style training and sparring/competition. The training is not just for tournaments and tournament fighters and is often mixed in with normal class curriculm so everyone can benefit. I'm stating this from personal experience here...from the inside not just from the outside looking in. WTF competition is not an easy game... BTW, SS, I think the general public has a distorted view of MA no matter what they see. You could tell them you train in jujutsu and they will ask you if that's a type of karate. Questions about what you do can depend on what type of movies are out at the time (I got a lot of can you jump and kick three times like Neo in the Matrix when it first came out.) No one knows what capoeira is and when I try to explain, they look at me like I'm a nut and then assume it's just "another karate". I think it is something that will never change and Olympic style TKD isn't the blame for it.

One of the reasons in Olympic competition that head punches aren't allowed is because at the time when TKD was making it's Olympic bid, Karate was also doing the same. An argument the karate people used is that TKD is just Korean karate and so they took away punches to the head in competition. Olympic style with head punches would just be open point, they wanted differentiation. I for one think that this makes Olympic style competition a lot more technical and it has allowed for a lot of developments that may not have come about as easily. IMHO(and experience), it's easy to punch someone in the head. I don't have anything against open point(stop and continuos) competiton but a lot of them look really sloppy to me.. :/ A good Olympic style TKD dojang would still teach the normal curriculm, including all hand techniques, one steps, etc. Maybe even a little grappling as ours does. Just because something isn't done in competition doesn't mean a person can't do it when they need to. I think someone mentioned kids and head kicks? Black belt kids 14 and above can kick the head and 14 and under black and colored belts cannot.

Yeah, I agree with these guys. Even trying to learn a little bit of capoeira from books or videos is effort best placed elsewhere. All the capoeira "instructional" videos on the market are not very good and are a waste of money. The books are very good for history and some movements but if you're not learning capoeira from a teacher at a school..pictures won't help you at all. I "discovered" a move I've never seen anyone else do in 5 years of capoeira practice/experience. I was pretty excited, then I come home and look in a book I've had for two years and the move is right there in a drawing w/ description, turns out I just wasn't ready to understand it.. heh I see you're in Texas, where? I know there's capoeira down there..

WTF fighters do use the front leg but not in the same manner as a point fighter. We don't really use them for side kicks but for fast kick (a type of quick skipping front leg round kick), cut kick (a front push kick to the hip area usually), and front leg axe (either in place as a counter or as a quick forward skipping kick). I'd say the last few years has seen a rise in the amount of people using front leg techniques in WTF sparring/competition. I say have a good mix of both based on your ability. For instance, my left leg is more flexible than my right, so when fighting with left foot forward I could catch people with the two types of axe kicks above much more easily and used it to my advantage. It also depends on the type of stance the two fighters are in. I don't know if you guys know about the concepts of open and closed stance. If you want I can explain further in another post...