LordBucket

I agree, sounds like you have a very cool father. Be sure to let him know. Sounds like he's also saving you from having to learn a lot of lessons first hand. Never underestimate an older fighter...training is one thing...experience is another. And, to quote Baron Harkonen: 'Youth and vigor will always sucuumb to age and treachery.' I've taken a few sucker punches in my life, and unfortunately it often only takes one to end a fight. The first one. Bucket Man --------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

A funny thing happened in class tonight. I took Shotokan for about three years a while back, and I've been taking Shito Ryu for almost a year now, just for fun and to fill up the extra nights in my week in which I don't have a different martial arts class. Anyway...We were all lined up and doing kata from the begining, and it just so happened that the person doing kata next to me had ALSO taken Shotokan before. Well heian and pinan forms are basically the same, only with different stances and a bunch of small little detailed differences. Well...apparantly somehow the 'Shotokan Spirit' started to come out between us, and somewhere between sandan and godan we ended up transitioning over to doing the Shotokan version of the forms...and somehow we never noticed that we did this. ...until the instructor walked over to try to figure out what the hell we were doing. Bukcet Man ---------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

Rope Dart $20 If you want to buy one: http://usawushu.com/shop/weapons/traditional.html Insanely difficult to learn. Watch Shanghai Noon for the best rope dart fight sequence I've ever seen. (Jackie Chan ties a horseshoe onto the end of a rope and uses it like a rope dart.) Occassionally a video will show up on kazaa with a rope dart sequence. Bucket Man ---------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

I've only witnessed videos work in two cases: 1) You already know the style, the style is very consistent, and you just want to learn a new kata. 2) Weapons. For some reason, learning weapons from video seems to work. I actually learned first chucks from watching the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. I had the benefit of someone having taken a minute to show me how to hold the things first though. Bucket Man ---------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

So who'd like to give me some insight on Shito-Ryu? I've been doing Shito-Ryu for about a year now, after a couple years of Shotokan...and I'm afraid there are some things I just don't get about the forms. Say what you'd like about Shotokan being hard and linear. It may be that, but its CONSISTENT. Take a look at the forms. You're in forward stance most of the time...there's a certain 'mental state' that goes with it...a certain 'feel,' and that 'feel' stays pretty much the same, whether you're doing forms, or point sparring, or distance drills, or basics, or anything. It's not that with Shito-Ryu. It almost seems like somebody decided that they wanted to be different from Shotokan just for the sake of being different, rather than having a good reason for making changes. What's the rational behind the change of stances throughout the first five kata? Making just about everything into a cat stance doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Sure...the original Shotokan kata include such logical things as blocking an attack without countering and then immediatly turning your back on them, but the Shito-Ryu versions don't correct this, but they add a bizzarre quality to the forms by having you constantly move towards your opponent in cat stance...an odd thing if ever I've seen one. If it were consistent with the rest of the 'feel' of Shito-Ryu that would be one thing...but when we practice basics, it's 90% forward stance. When we practice point sparring, 100%. Distance drills? 100%. Why cat stance in the kata alone? It just doesn't 'match.' And what about the use of shiko-dachi instead of kemo-dachi? Horse stance with feet out at 45 degree angles instead of parallel to one another. Kemodachi just doesn't seem to be used in Shito-Ryu. Why? The only reason I can think of is that it's harder to do and requries more ankle flexibility. That seems like a really bad reason to make a change like that. 'Oh this is too hard, so we'll do it this way instead.' From the training I've seen, Shito-Ryu seems virtually identical to Shotokan except for the changes in the kata, and the changes in the kata don't make sense to me, and aren't really reflected much in the rest of the style. It's not even just that somebody decided that Shotokan was too rigid and 'hard' for them and decided to soften it. There are places in the forms where Shotokan is more hard and more linear, but there are also quite a few instances in which the Shotokan version of the forms is softer and more rounded than the Shito-Ryu version. Take Heian vs. Pinan Yondan. The Shotokan opening is a slow, tension movement, the Shito-Ryu version is a fast block. Later in the same form, the same thing occurs. After the nose bash on the first kiai, the shotokan kata is again a slow warding-off motion, vs. the fast, hard block of Shoto-Ryu. In Godan there are places where Shotokan uses a cat stance, but Shito-Ryu just has you stand there in natural stance. So what's the deal? Bucket Man ---------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

>I've only seen one other shotokan club wear a black gi, has >anyone else seen a shotokan club in black? No...but many years ago I remember having a 'guest' instructor come in to our Shotokan class from Japan. He wore an all black gi. The way I rememeber it being explained to me was basically that it was his way of announcing to the world that he thought he was great and that if anyone thought they were better, they were welcome to find out. Nobody took him up on the offer. Bucket Man ---------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

What's ATA then? I assume it stands for 'American TaeKonDo Association' but what's the significance if one TKD school is ATA and one isn't? Bucket Man ---------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

In my Wushu class its pretty routine for us to end a class by doing horse stances for time. Now...keep in mind that the Wushu horse stance is done with thighs exactly parallel to the ground. Our longest time in the beginner class has been three minutes, fifteen seconds. You've probably seen in Kung Fu movies (the original drunken master, for instance) this excercise done with cups filled with water resting on the thighs. Same idea. In a shotokan class many years ago we used to do the same thing, only with a partner standing with a foot on our legs on either side of our body. Only a minute though. It definitely paid to pick the right partner on that excercise. Bucket Man -------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

I had a kempo instructor who practiced this. His recommendation was to start out doing fingertip pushups against a wall, and then very slowly over several months lower your height on the wall until you can do them on the ground. A fingerTIP strike is very different from a claw or raking strike. If you want to develop the fingertips, then be sure when you do your pushups that all the bones in your finger are perfectly aligned in a straight line, and never let them bend at any joint. Getting the alignment and the balance down is much harder than developing the strength. I never saw it myself, but he claimed that the Grandmaster of the style was able to poke finger-sized holes in two inch thick pine boards. At least...until he failed to properly align the finger and snapped it backwards at the middle joint. I did however, see a related trick which was very cool: I witnessed my instructor put out candles from a couple feet away with a 'fingertip' strike. No...no ninja magic or anything, it was just that he was able to generate a current of air, and his aim was good enough that he could perform a little circular whipping motion with his wrist that ended in a forward thrust (sort of like the rotation of a traditional karate punch) with an extended pointer finger directly at the candle with no 'swishing' motion whatsoever...and put out the candle with his fingertip still two or three feet away from the candle. Very cool to watch. I tried learning it myself, but lost interest pretty quickly. Give it five minutes and you should be able to put the candle out from a few inches away. Bucket Man --------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

My inclination is to say Bruce Lee for two reasons: 1) I find that speed generally wins out over power. 2) Tyson would have a whole lot of boxing habits that wouldn't translate well into a street fight. I mean...boxers are trained not to kick...they're trained to stop and back away after grappling...they're trained not to attack the neck, back, legs, etc...they're trained not to defend the bottom third of their body...and they're trained not to defend against kicks. If Bruce were allowed five minutes to watch Tyson fight in advance, he'd very easily know how to take advantage of his fighting habits. Tyson would have a much harder time evaluating Bruce's style. I think Tyson's best tactic would be to charge in, knowing full well that he would take a few hits, grab Bruce (hope he's not wearing gloves) and start pounding without letting go no matter what Bruce dished out. Tyson could take more of a beating than Bruce, and he would need to press that advantage. Unfortunately for Tyson, from what I've seen of boxing matches, the tendancy is to spend the first round or two (read: several minutes) trying to get a 'feel' for your oponent. For Bruce, it would just be a matter of keeping his distance and kicking Tyson in places he wasn't accustomed to having to defend. Legs tend to be longer than arms...and having the advantage in both speed AND range would make him dvery difficult for Tyson to overcome. Unless Tyson can end the fight in the first ten seconds, he's lost. On the other hand, if Tyson can get a good hold of Bruce, I don't see Bruce being able to get out of it. Bucket Man --------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

>a lot of you take more than one style. Sure. Personally I think it is best this way. Too many people assume that the first style they try is the greatest in the whole world. >was just wondering are you actively training in both? Personally, yes...I've done as many as three styles concurrently, but I wouldn't recommend doing that from day one. I'd say to stick with one style for a year or two or three, and then branch out. Once you've had a few years in multiple styles, you should find that you can try just about anything and keep it all straight in your head. The difference between one and two styles is pretty big. The difference between two and three isn't much. After that, you'll find yourself not asking 'how do you do that?' but rather, 'which way do you guys do that? This way, this way, or this way?' Another thing to consider...just because the two styles you pick are totally different, doesn't mean you shouldn't do them together. In some ways, this is much easier than two styles which are very similar. I've taken three years of Shotokan, and maybe a year of Shito-Ryu. The forms are very similar, but have a bazillion tiny little differences. It's a lot harder to keep track of subtle differences than major ones. Personally I think the ultimate goal is to devise your 'own' style by taking the pieces of each that work best for you. >if so, do they interfere with each other in any way? Yes...but if you pay close enough attention you can minimize this. Personally, the problem I most run into is not confusing methods...but rather than after having seen several methods it's not uncommon for me to have a very strong preference for one over another, and it can be frustrating to practice a particular method which I think doesn't work as well as a different method...simply because it is the method favored by the class I'm taking. (Hope that made sense.) Let's put it this way: If you've learned six different ways of doing a front kick, and you've spent a few years each on a couple of them...odds are good that you 'understand' the logic being each way of kicking, but prefer one or two of them. It's frustrating to take a class which only accepts as valid the kicking methods you don't like, but the class may offer other things you DO like, so you just put up with it. The other frustrating thing that comes up...since most martial artists generally only take one style, often you'll run into students who will insist that their method is the 'best' 'fastest' 'most powerful' 'etc' way of doing some particular technique, when it very obviously isn't. For instance, not too terribly long ago I was seen doing a front thrust kick in a karate class. A higher ranking student (with about five years less experience than me) came over and explained that by snapping the kick, I would generate more power than by locking it and thrusting the hips. Now, obviously this isn't true. If he had said that a snap kick is faster or that it's harder for an oponent to catch, sure I'd have agreed. He then continued on to explain that I was doing the kick incorrectly, to which I responded that I wsan't doing a front snap kick, I was doing a front thrust kick...to which he replied that there was 'no such thing as a front thrust kick, it is called a front snap kick.' So I smiled and thanked him and went on with my life. >what was your sifu/sensei/guru's reaction when you told >them you were going to take another class? It varies. On one extreme I've been encouraged to do it, and told that it's great to cross train. (Kickboxing) On the opposite extreme, I've been given dirty looks and asked to be uke a lot. (Aikido) My personal favorite reaction was in mentioning that I was taking Wushu to one Shito-Ryu instructor. 'I see... Umm...I understand, but maybe it would be best if you DIDN'T tell O-Sensei...' Bucket Man --------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

http://yoga.tripod.co.jp/flash/kikkomaso_e.swf This is hilarious! Bucket Man ---------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

Just a quick point that I recommend to EVERYONE who is considered joining a new studio: They'll invite you to watch a class. The class they invite you to watch will be the beginner class, because that's the class you'll be starting in. That's great, but you need to know more than that. Watch a BLACK BELT class...so you know what to expect if you decide to stcik with the studio. If you watch they're black belts and think 'wow, they look clueless' then you should probably pass on that studio. Bucket Man ------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

>I found a Tai Chi school and I'm in the process of making enquiries >there, but do you think Tai Chi and Shotokan are compatible Which form of Tai Chi? The Yang form is probably compatible enough. The shoulder and hip alignments will be very similar. The stances are a bit different, but at least you'll never have to deal with hearing 'your stances are too low' one day, and then 'you're stances aren't deep enough' the next. You might find, actually, that given your experience in Shotokan, you may not even find yourself feeling like Tai Chi is a 'martial' art. >especially considering the length of time I've spend in >Shotokan is quite short? A year is ok, I think. Shotokan was my first style, and I did it for three years before trying anything else. When I did, I moved to a mixed hard/soft kempo...and was the source of a great deal of amusement for my instructor was the first six months because I was so accustomed to doing everything in the Shotokan, hard, solid, rythmic drumbeat fasion. With only one year, you might have an easier time adapting than I did. Are you planning or switching completely, or taking both concurrently? Either is fine, but just understand that if you do both at the same time you may have to pay a lot of attention to habits that each style teaches you which are exactly in opposition to the habits the other style encourages. Bucket Man --------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

May I suggest something? This individual is giving you a marvelous oportunity to genuinely learn Aikido. Not all attacks are physical. It sounds to me like he is quite simply trying to annoy you. Don't let his mental 'attacks' effect you. When he next tries, remember that you are shite...flow with his stupidity and pass its energy on its way without allowing it to affect you. Bucket Man ------------------------------------------ http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

Personally I think blue and red gi look the best. I once had an instructor who had a uniform custom made for him out of silk. Blue top with an embroidered dragon around the torso and white a bottom with black highlights. Very cool. Generally though, if aestetics is your primary concern, get a Chinese dress uniform. Bucket Man -------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

>I went to watch a modern wushu tournament today. >It was amazing. Yup. Wushu is amazingly cool to watch. That's sort of the point. >There were like 5 year old kids doing aerials and 540s and stuff. If you'd like to try to learn some of that yourself, there are some attempts at tutorials at http://www.bilang.com. Getting someone to teach you, would of course be much better. >It probably would have been better for fighting if >they had put the effort Sure...but you don't take Wushu to learn to fight. You take it specifically so you can look cool, or as my instructor says 'to be beautiful.' Bucket Man ------------------------------ http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

Just do a yahoo search for 'monk uniform' http://www.bambootemple.com/shaolinbrand/sx040003.htm http://www.superiormartialarts.com/catalog/uniform/shaolin.html http://www.blackbeltshop.com/shaolin_style_warrior_monk_robes.htm Prices range from about $70 to $140. Bucket Man ----------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

There is an article on training in China, and how to best go about it at: http://www.beijingwushuteam.com/articles/traininBJ.html They don't address training at the Temple specifically. but it might be worth reading. Bucket Man --------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

>take up BJJ or judo, maybe San Soo, no set patterns there. It's not a function of style, it's a function of how it is taught. My step sister took a San Soo class a few years back, and so far as I could tell, over half of the techniques she learned were to deal with a right handed punch from straight on. Also...she only ever learned to perform her techniques on one side of the body, another 'stupid' habit. There's no reason why San Soo, or any other styles couldn't be taught without those particular mistakes, but I think simply as a matter of learning material, it is convenient to make assumptions and then stick with them. Can you imagine a class in which, from day one, any time you practice any technique, your partner is free to attack (or not) in any way he wants? That's what I think it would take. Otherwise, habits and assumptions form. Bucket Man --------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

Both methods work, but understand that which method you choose will have an affect on the sort of student you attract to your school. My experience has been that people who are genuinely self motivated, and really WANT to practice martial arts do not respond well to negative reinforcement. Most of the McDojo's in my area, for instance, make extensive use of pushups as punishment for bad behavior. It is a nuisance and a distraction to everybody else in the class to do this. Also especially bad is the taking of time to berate an individual student at the expense of the reset of the class. 90% of everyone is doing what they're supposed to, but the one idiot who shouldn't be there is goofing off, so everybody has to listen to ten seconds of yelling. I think the brain has a difficult time when it is doing exactly the correct thing, but it hears a rant about how 'you're not trying hard enough' even though the rant is directed at somebody else. It's also obnoxious to have to do something physically strenuous for twice as long, just because the person next to you is trying half as hard. The best method that I have seen for dealing with people who don't listen, or don't put forth good effort is to absolutely and completely ignore them. After a few weeks they generally get the hint, and they leave. It is better this way. Bucket Man. -------------------------------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/ocmartialarts

>country your from USA. Orange County, Southern California. >how many years of expierence should an instructor have? Depends totally on the local climate, and how formal of an arrangement you have. I happen to live in an area where there are a couple of Grandmasters teaching classes, so you can easily find somebody with 50+ years of teaching experience. On the other hand, a few years back I heard a story about a Hwa Rang Do purple belt who opened his own studio. He didn't last very long, but he DID get students. >How much do you all pay a month for your martial arts? I'm paying $79/month for my Wushu classes (two locations owned by same people, so if I'm willing to make the drive, I could be attending five classes per week at my level,) and I'm also taking Shito-Ryu at the local junior college for $11 per semester (One, three hour class per week.) (Temporarily out for summer, so I'm studying twice a week at the local YMCA with a friend of my instructor, and he isn't charging me since it's just for a few months.) >how many styles can a school teach before it becomes a mcdojo? Huh...that's an interesting question. In my area, at least, number of styles taught doesn't really seem to be much of a factor. I know several McDojo's which only teach one style, and I can think of a few places which teach several and are still good. In one case, it's two totally unrelated systems and teachers who just happen to share the same building and teach classes on different schedules. In another case it's a karate studio which officially teaches Shito-Rye, but also teaches Shotokan. Others as well...the most is a kickboxing places which claims to teach about half a dozen different styles, but they're largely similar (Muay Tae and Savate, for example) and the instructors simply say, 'ok...let's do this lesson in the style of Muay Tae' and the students learn both styles. Bucket Man

I've seen people skip ranks on quite a few occassions, and personally I see nothing wrong with it provided that the skill level is there. In addition to people who have had previous experience in another style, I've also seen it happen that a first time martial artist just happens to be unavailable for a test because of work conflicts. If someone has been training for six months, and tests are only held every three months, I think it's completely reasonable for them to test two ranks. I've also known a couple people who simply don't want to get involved with the ego involved with rank tests, and end up not taking tests for a few years. Then, everntually they realize that they know enough, and can perform material that would qualify them for brown belt or so, so they decide that they want to start testing. I did that myself at one studio...I refused to test for the first year simply because I didn't want to get involved in the silly ego games that some people play, and then eventually changed my mind and tested three or four levels. Also, I've on several occassions seen the exact opposite problem occur: A student who is obviously more skilled than people twice his rank. It happens because he misses tests, or had previous experience, or is one of those dedicated peope who makes time to attend six classes a week instead of two. Often a combination of the three. The fact of the rank is one thing, but it is discouraging for a person in this situation to see people receive respect and attention he doesn't even thoough he is much more talented. Also, many studios have policies on not teaching material based on ability, but based on rank. Surely you've seen this: 'No, you can't learn that kata yet, you're nto a brown belt.' and 'No, you can't test for brown belt even though you know everything up to that point and can perform it well, there's a fixed six months between tests, and no rank slipping, no matter what.' This is certain death and boredom to an extremely talented student. They aren't learning anything new, and usually end up leaving the school. Bucket Man

That's funny. I always just thought it was the norm for Tae Kwon Do. Five years seems to be pretty much the standard around here for most other styles (although the local Shito-Ryu crowd, six years in the 'official' average time, even though the vast majority of Shito-Ryu black belts I know took it took more like ten.) I've asked some of the TKD instructors about it, and the explanation I'm generally given is that a black belt is considered to mean something a little different than is most other styles. They say they think of a black belt as meaning essentially 'ok...you've learned the basics, and we believe that you're serious now, so let's start taking martial arts seriously.' Aren't there two 'systems' of Tae Kwon Do in the US? I don't remember the acronyms, but there's the 'officiallly recognized Olympic Tae Kwon Do' and 'the other one.' ATA? Might this be part of what's going on? Bucket Man

3.5 years on lower end for Tae Kwon Do? Most studios in my area claim that 2 years is about average. Bucket Man