ValeTudo

They flail around like two little school yard girls. Neither does much damage to the other, and neither shows any hint of actual technique. You can find it on https://www.bullshido.com -- go to downloads, then look around. You'll find it.

PS, Thank you for engaging in a discussion about the subject. Most people don't. As far as the videos. I'm pretty unconvinced. You're right, this is training and it is on video (so who knows how many shots were taken). It's also on a non-resisting opponent which would, of course, make the techniques much easier to complete. Even the "sparring" was on a non-resisting partner with no real contact being made (you can see that in the slow-mo). I'm sorry, but everytime I've seen Wing Chun tried against a resisting partner, it's failed miserably. Here's a list of the Wing Chun fights I've seen: Wing Chun vs. Kyokushin (Wing Chun guy is knocked out) Asbel Cancio vs. Dave Beneteau (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Dave Levicki vs. Johnny Rhodes (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Scott Baker vs. Jason Delucia (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Dave Levicki vs. Rickson Gracie (Wing Chun guy is submitted) Now, I know I know. NONE of these guys were "real" Wing Chun right? I'd really, really like to see "real" Wing Chun put to the test. If ANYONE has a video, I'd love to see it!

Well that evidence is certainly much more convincing! Sounds good.

Do you have any videos of a "real" Wing Chun guy in a real fight? It seems to me that too often the cop-out argument made is "that's not REAL (X)" It's done in every art. So I'm just interested in any videos of real fights involving "real" wing chun fighters. Not flaming, just curious.

Why? The examples you cited (besides the prison one which doesn't identify a particular strike) took place during boxing matches. That means that punches were the cause of those impacts. I think it would be FAR easier to punch someone in the ear than it would be to simultaneously slap both ears while keeping your hands air-tight. Do you have any examples of open hand strikes doing this kind of damage? Why do you think an open hand strike would be far more likely to get the effect? The evidence, thus far, says otherwise.

All of the examples Jerry Love cited talk about punching the ears. So my question is, why box the ears?? Just punch the crap out of them. Given the angle you'd be hitting with, you can get a lot more leverage to hit hard w/ a punch, than with boxing the ears. So why box them?

I train BJJ and I'd agree that it's great for self-defense. However, Krav Maga MIGHT be better for you. They teach weapons defenses, etc... And they do adrenaline rush training. Although, I don't do Krav Maga (I do BJJ, Muay Thai, and Boxing) I hear that it's pretty good against common street thugs. Maybe TJS should answer this question. He does Krav.

That might be the first mistake! A lot of phone book places are McDojos... If you have any friends that would know.. ask around for quality places to train. Or, go to websites and ask about good training spots in your area. What is your area by the way? What type of Jiu Jitsu is it? Traditional or Brazilian? If it's Brazilian, I'd suggest it over the others you mentioned. Or, did you check for boxing gyms? I'd suggest looking at boxing as well.

That's a bit of an overstatement. No one knows how Thomas Edison became deaf. However, he speculated it was from an accident as a child. He was trying to board a moving train and the conductor picked him up off the ground by his ears. That's how he believes he became deaf. That's pretty different from boxing the ears. Has anyone here actually tried this technique? Just wondering what the result was.

Yah, that is a pretty pathetic position! Either thai clinch the back of his neck and start working your knees. (great access to the head in that situation). Or work your uppercuts and hooks to his head. Or, sprawl back and bring him down to the ground with you. Then begin the knees to the top of his head from the north/south position, or work for a submission. Or, go straight for the guillotine choke standing. He really has no offense from this position. It's a weak position that leaves him open to far too many powerful strikes/submissions.

Don't mean this to be style bashing. Just a funny/stupid story to pass along! https://www.darwinawards.com Kung Fu Lion Historic Darwin Award Nominee Confirmed by Darwin (Late 1989s, Australia) A rather impressionable student of kung fu listened with rapt attention when his instructor dramatically informed the class, "Now that you have reached this level in your training, you can kill wild animals with your bare hands!" The martial arts trainee took the statement as gospel, and headed to the Melbourne zoo to test his mettle with the wildest animal of all: the lion. In the dead of night, he slipped into the zoo, leapt into the lion enclosure, and engaged a suitable king of the jungle in combat. He would probably have lost a one-on-one fight, but he never got to try. His naive fight plan didn't account for the enthusiasm of the lion's pride for a tender intruder; nor did it give sufficient weight to the possibility that his instructor didn't know what the hell he was talking about. Zoo employees found his remains -- two arms and hands -- the following morning, with shreds of red fur grasped tightly in his fingers.

Well, I guess since my SN is ValeTudo, I'll answer. Some of the folks are right. Vale Tudo actually isn't so much a style, as it is a name for a competition. Vale Tudo competitions prohibit biting and eye gouging. All else is legal (like the original UFC). It's the closest you'll EVER get to testing your self-defense/fighting skills in a controlled environment. That's probably what he meant by fighting professionally. You can compete in Vale Tudo/MMA tournaments. Usually (and I stress usually), the training will consist of BJJ for ground work, some form of wrestling techniques for clinch/takedowns, and either muay thai or western boxing for standup. Those are the three phases of a vale tudo fight (freestanding, clinch, and ground). Vale Tudo teaches you to continually flow between these phases and be skilled at each. I LOVE Vale Tudo. Would suggest it to anyone who is really interested in fighting. You won't be taught things that work IN THEORY, you'll be taught things that actually do work. And, you'll be able to test them in actual combat. Where are you planning on training?

Maybe the best shotokan fighter. But not the best fighter.

Ok, back on topic! Here's my list, in order: 1) Vale Tudo (MMA) 2) Krav Maga 3) Wrestling 4) Muay Thai 5) Western Boxing 6) BJJ 7) Kyokushin 8. Kali 9) Escrima 10) Anything but Shotokan Karate (I kid, I kid....)

Lol.. And you'll probably end up just like that Shotokan fighter in Spain who didn't think he needed to cross train to beat the BJJ fighter. Go here if you don't know what I'm talking about: http://www.bullshido.com/dl_goto.asp?id=64

A couple of comments jumped out at me.. Perhaps someone can clarify? I looked him up on Sherdog. No record of him ever competing in a professional Vale Tudo fight. Any one know what he's talking about? How exactly do they incorporate eye gouging and biting into the training? Are you actually gouging someone's eyes out during sparring? Or, is it one of those, "practice it on a non-resisting partner" things? Just seems like there wouldn't be too many people that trained in this system for very long if they were getting their eyes gouged. Anyone know how exactly they train this?

Hey TJS, You should also post this in the Combative Martial Arts section. They will probably respond a little more to it. Anyway, I (obviously) agree with most of what this article says.

William Cheung is the Grandmaster of traditional Wing Chun. You can read that here: http://www.cheungswingchun.com/Profile.html "He has been called the Masters' Master; he was considered by Bruce Lee to be the "ultimate fighter": William Cheuk Hing Cheung was the sole inheritor of the Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu system, and was the person responsible for introducing Bruce Lee to Wing Chun Kung Fu." Emin Boztepe is a representative of Wing Tsun. A Dai-Sifu at the time of this fight. He was sent (in your own words) to represent his grandmaster. Interesting. For those who want to see the fight. You can find it here: http://www.bullshido.com/dl_showall.asp?cat_id=54&parent_id=14&parent_name=Videos&sub_name=Misc%2E+Videos They certainly do a lot of damage with these "Wing Chun techniques" don't they?! Either way, I'm not sure where you see sticky hands and/or elbows throughout the entire fight. There are no elbows, and about 5 punches in this entire fight. Cheung goes for a headlock, gets tripped by Boztepe. Boztepe gets the top position, throws a few inneffective punches. Cheung wrestles himself out. That's it. Looks like some school girls fighting! I could care less about the politics behind this incident. If two martial artists want to fight, I think they should fight! It's the best way to test your skills. My problem here is that these two highly advanced WC martial artists fight like schoolgirls when put to the test.

If these two egomaniacs are grandmasters of Wing Chun, it certainly does have a bearing on the use of Wing Chun! Their personal attributes (ego) have nothing to do with their fighting ability. If they are the most advanced of a particular style, yet use none of that style in an actual fight, it says a lot about the style.

Fair enough. I'll change my question. If two grandmasters of Wing Chun do not use their technique in a real fight, and flail around like school yard children. If Wing Chun has not fared well in NHB challenge matches. Why would anyone be confident in their abilities to defend themselves with Wing Chun? Wing Chun folks, please answer.

I don't ! I see that a lot on this forum though. (Kick him in the groin, etc..) It makes me laugh, so I was being sarcastic.

Just a little bit... But it showed the all-powerful groin strike! (What everyone here seems to think is the ultimate solution to everything...)

Here. I found a video clip of a Kung Fu San Soo teacher teaching multiple opponent defenses and defense against the guard. I pray to God that nobody seriously thinks this stuff will work! http://www.easthillskungfu.com/Videos/Lasiter/Grappler/grappler_wmv.htm The mother website has links to various San Soo videos. http://www.easthillskungfu.com/videos.htm Still looking for a knee-on-stomach clip.

Ok. Let me try to find some videos of knee-on-stomach. Might take me a while because I'm at work and doing this in my spare time. Treebranch, do you have any videos of San Soo being used (realistically) against multiple opponents?

Are you referring to the knee on stomach position? Or to Treebranch's alignment idea?