Prodigal Son

Remeber "Sticks and stones", but once you have been touched it's on - so do the guy as quickly and as viciously as possible and the hop it. Because there is a good chance that you wll be dealing with his friends immediately after him, or worse still, the po-lice. Put him down in such a way that he stays down, then vanish. >>>PS<<<

So what was all that bull about "I will not cross train and will be the ultimate Shoto warrior" ? If knowledge gained in your past is useful today, then why not seek new knowledge in the future ? It's just ignorance. And whilst we are on the subject, here are my top ten reasons why Shotokan doen't work against so many other arts... 1. Too slow. 2. Too slow. 3. Too slow. 4. Too slow. 5. Too slow. 6. Too slow. 7. Too slow. 8. Too slow. 9. Too slow. 10 Some of them underestimate everyone else's ability. And yes, I DID do Shotokan for four years before I realised that I couldn't fight. But after only two years of Wing Chun (and after that time I was still a rank amateur in the scheme of things) I thrashed my former teacher (15 years training and teaching) in a friendly match - and he is a NAME Shoto guy in the UK. But that's another story... Like it or not, some styles ARE more effective than others, and only a fool thinks that they are learning the 'Ultimate' style. So I would advise you to keep an open mind and learn something from everyone you meet, my friend - the price of ignorance and arrogance together is a nasty death on the street. "If I had a motto, it would be 'Thats cooooool ! Now, how do I learn to do that ?'" Richard Bandler >>>PS<<<

Is it just me, or are so many of the quotes from Tao Of JKD bursting with Eastern Promise, nominalisations and fantastic vagueness ? Not the ones in that Martialartist posted btw, which I thought were very well chosen... Maybe I'm just stupid, but so much of that book can be taken in whatever way works for the reader on the day. Perhaps that's the point of it, I dunno. I'm not saying that it's not a good book with plenty of good info (before I get burnt at the stake here for such heresy), but lots of it means whatever you want it to mean. Blah blah. Anway... So what IS JKD ? The problem that I have seen with several of the JKD fighters who have crossed my path, is that they seem to think that an absence of solid training is an advantage. They stay stuff like "I'm not bound by the rules (of actually KNOWING anything), and so I can fight without restrictions..." Maybe so - but then why do they always get slapped when they come to our class ? The reason JKD worked for Bruce is that he ALREADY knew enough about Wing Chun (and whatever else) to bend the rules and get away with it. Once you completely understand the way that, for example, a San Soo fighter works, then it is easy enough to beat him. But if you don't know, then you will be at his mercy - because you will only find out how he works by getting some horrible punishment. I feel that JKD is an excellent ideology for those who are already advanced fighters within their own styles, but for those who take it on as an 'art' in itself, it seems to me to be a hotchpotch of partial knowledge which gives them a dangerous false sense of security. "Bruce did it, so it must work..." Yes - but Bruce knew so much more about so much more LONG before he wrote Tao of JKD, and that background is essential to making JKD work against real fighters. Don't forget that most good martial arts work very well indeed against those who don't understand them. Go on the mat with an Aikido master, knowing less than he does, and be 'unrestricted'. And trust me, he will smash you up - in a very peaceful and aesthetic way, of course . It is what the opponent does not know that ultimately allows us to destroy him. Once again folks, just an opinion - no offence to anyone intended. You must know it ALL before deciding what can be ignored. (Prodigal Son) >>>PS<<<

I think you'd be unwise to take on such a project without very careful thought. There area million 'Gurus' who will gladly take the shirt off your back if you let them, and they can be most convincing. The right teacher will present himself or herself, when the time is right - but if you go to Asia with lots of dollar looking for a spiritual teacher, you will be eaten alive. And if you are new to MA, there are enough excellent American Sifus to teach you fro the next 30 years or so. >>>PS<<<

Wow. The correct word for dy ke has been removed from my previous post. is it dirty word ? Many people would be offended by it's censorship. Just an opinion >>>PS<<<

Now please, nobody take any offence at this, because there is none meant I promise... But have you tried asking your local gay and lesbian support group ? Surely there will be a men only class amongst the gay community in your city ? >>>PS<<< BTW, I dunno if that would actually make your wife any happier...

With all respect, I disagree. Aikido is too long a road before it works effectively on the street, at least for someone who wants a 'quick' and 'easy' style. It's tricky, complex, and even it's name tells us that it is a 'spirit' based art... Do kickboxing or Kyokushin. Something unrefined and brutish >>>PS<<<

If you kinda wanna learn to fight, well you can learn a few moves here and a few moves there - but anyone who HAS got the whole mind body spirit trip will beat you every time. It all depends on wether you can deal with the fact that there are better fighters out there than you, and that they are the ones who are gonna try to end your life, or the life of one that you love. I personally don't like that idea, and so I do the whole trip. There are no shortcuts - there only SEEM to be shortcuts. >>>PS<<<

Boxing classes generally don't have that many women in them - and there's no grappling - and it's quite effective... But may I be so bold as to ask one thing ? Is it she that does not trust you, or you that does not trust yourself ? Because with respect mate, I'd say if you wanna do martial arts, you should first learn to win your battles on the home front before going outside. If you cannot command the repect of your wife, then who will repect you on the street ? If you are so dominated by her, then perhaps you should take up Ikebana ? If you can't reason with her, put her over your knee. >>>PS<<<

Nobody said "only flying kicks".... But none the less, Northern styles generally DO incorporate high or turning kicks etc. Not ALL of them. MOST of them. So perhaps we should ask, once again, "Are short and direct styles better than flashy ones ?". Everyone who are regularly on this forum already knows my opinion on this, so I'm not gonna bore anyone with it today. >>>PS<<<

Yes indeed Paralax19 - this could go on forever, but it won't. It is impossible for anyone to say "this is better than that" without instantly looking foolish, because most of us only know one side of the story. I am sure that for some, JKD is the ultimate 'art' and that they make it work for them, and that there are many WC students who couldn't punch their way through a wet paper bag. And so the moral of the story is that it is down to the individual, not the art. In cowboy terms, whoever is the best shot and the quickest to draw wins - and within reason the type of pistol doesn't matter too much. Waterpistols don't count And my WC training ? I'm so very lucky. One of my best friends is a wicked teacher, and has been teaching me one on one for several years now. Also, he has many brothers - also friends of mine - who are great fighers, and so I get to touch hands with different people and energies most days of the week. My training is holistic, and includes fasting, meditation and internal stuff like Chi Kung. Oh, and untold amounts of Jong and punching ! So in terms of progress, I feel I have progressed very quickly for the time I have been training. If I had spent those years in the third row of a class, i'm not sure how far I would have come by now - but I'm sure I would not be quite so good. (But in terms of comparing myself with my teacher and others in the WC world, I'm still a novice.) How 'bout u ? >>>PS<<<

LOL - I mean never fight force with force. When you touch hands with a good senior, feel his or her energy as they are in contact with your hands - it should be relaxed and 'springy'. Then try to make your own energy like theirs. And damn is that difficult ! It just comes with time. There are different schools of thought on this amongst the different Wing Chun factions, but mine sees receptivity as the key. If you get all macho and tense in WC, you get beaten up ! >>>PS<<<

IMO a Martial Art is a way of fighting - so if someone has learned a way of fighting, then I would consider it a martial art. Some unofficial martial artists are very effective, and again IMHO, effectivenes is everything. Don't the Russians teach their Special Forces ROSS ? >>>PS<<<

Switch on the cigarette lighter, and when it is hot, throw it into the dude's lap...? >>>PS<<<

Welcome to the clan The most important thing, at least with my school of WC, is to keep it RELAXED - remember that it is 'The Feminine Art'. If you don't understand this now, just persist - you will soon ! >>>PS<<<

Accelerate into the nearest parked car, using the front headlight of the passenger side to make the impact. That should distract your assailant long enough for you to go to work. It may also kill you both, so don't do this unless you are really angry. Even a minor crash attracts lots of attention and possible help, and usually the po-lice come shortly afterwards. Or, just stop picking up crazy looking hitchers... >>>PS<<<

Yah - TKD fighters are too easy. For some weird reason they keep turning round and jumping about when they should be fighting. Pieces of wood ARE terrified of TKD guys though. >>>PS<<<

Nice, dude. That lot is worth a couple o' black belts. >>>PS<<< I'd add 11. Stand up straight and walk with dignity. >>>PS<<<

Punching a wall bag full of gravel to get the power up, candles for the relaxation in the punch. Ball on a string for moving targets. Sparring pads are okay for distancing etc but always draw a face on them or you will soon learn to "seek hands" when you should be hitting the center line. If you want to be good at punching, do lots of good punches. I do Wing Chun, BTW... >>>PS<<<

BTW Jeff - that grinder thing looks way cool. >>>PS<<<

I'm not saying I know it all, or that it can't be done - EVERYTHING can be done if you believe like I do that failure can only be defined in relation to time limits - four minute mile and all that. I'm just saying that I have heard SO many people bragging about how strong a friend of a friend is, but so few of us have seen it. And dojo demonstrations and Indian Rope Tricks to impress gullible students are a dime a dozen. How many of you remember Kateda ? >>>PS<<<

Sorry Southern styles are better becuase they are generally more effective on the street - it seems logical that the most effective way to hit something is in a straight line, both feet on the floor, and without turning your back. >>>PS<<< p.s. (But not all martial arts WANT to be deadly fighting systems - some of them are for aesthetics - that's why they say Martial ARTS - some of them kinda work and look nice too... so this is not intended to diss flashy styles. )

Paralax19 So when you say 'Cross Training', do you mean the study of different styles in one class ? I think that if you study Judo for 10 mins in the middle of your class, you are just studying Judo for 10 mins - so is that cross training, or lots of short classes in quick sucession ?... Or do you mean different methods - like grappling, kicking, punching during the same class ? Like those Ju Jitsu guys do ? And as for full contact sparring in class, do you mean it in the same way as Muay Thai fighters train, or boxers ? They seem to have been doing it for quite some time... And you can judge someone's ability based on how much they charge per hour ??? Sorry to be so pedantic about this - but that's just me - and whilst I respect everyone elses' opinions, I stick with my own on this one: Bruce Lee was a badboy by any standards, and it was he who gave Kung Fu to us western devils and forced us to see how cool it is. Top man. But all we know of him is what we are told by those who make money from his legend, and those stories are quite different from stories told by those who have nothing to gain - do you think his wife, however honest she may be, would say "Well, he was pretty good - but there were better." Or tell us that he got slapped durng the 'challenge' (like the other guy said) ? Nah. There are millions of students all over the world studying nasty martial arts as a way of life. Many of them work on doors and other dangerous places where they regularly fight for their lives - they are not Land Swimmers like many of us on this forum, or Bruce who as far as we know never fought a real fight. Even Gor Sau allows submission, streetfights do not. Most of them, even the best amongst them, will remain unknown to us their whole lives - and that is why we cannot say that Bruce Lee - however good he was - was the best that ever lived. It's like comparing Ali with Tyson - we shall just never know. And yeah, JKD may have made him a better fighter -but again he never tried it as far as we know and it certainly was not an improvement on WC as an art for the rest of us. I think that Wong Fe Hung's dad's teacher's mate would have done him. >>>PS<<<

I'm sure this will put a cat amongst the pigeons... But if you have full contact sparring, and people aren't regularly getting badly hurt, are you are doing something wrong ? Perhaps the wrong art ? What i'm asking is, if you can't use the stuff that really works on the best target areas in your sparring (obviously because people get castrated etc), then why waste time practicing stuff that kinda works ? Surely we should train to use our best and nastiest stuff before anthing else on the street ? Especially with habitual repetition of attacks to 'safe' areas, are you gonna think to change it when you have to really fight ? So how relevant is full contact sparring ? Respect to you all, >>>PS<<<

Fistly mate, it is never half baked to ask for evidence. It's called "not being a sucker". Secondly, as a WC practicioner and 20 year martial artist, could it be possible that I have enough interest in Brucey to actaually read a little about him ? To collect his movies, and even have a poster of the dude in my training area ? Kinda likely, I'd say. In answer if WC can be improved over time, I'll quote Bruce himself "As long as people have two arms and legs, they will fight the same way...". I'm not saying that it CAN'T be improved - I'm saying ask a WC Sifu if Bruce Lee has improved on his art, because we only hear that one from martial artists of OTHER styles. Usually those who wouldn't know anyway. And as for "For Him", how does he know he had "improved" on it - he didn't know it all. (I really have GOT to stop saying that - I'm boring myself with it now...) Anyway - so people didn't Cross-Train until Bruce Lee came along? Oh really ? So what about the hard physical labour that they did ? Miles of walking, running, swimming ? Come on. Just because Karate-Do-Kyohan doesn't say "And on Tuesdays go to the gym and do 20 mins on the stepper" doesn't mean that people have not understood where to find training opportunities in their day to day lives for centuries. Carrying your shopping should be cross traing, or you are wasting time. And aside from that, are you telling me that even oldschool Karate-ka in the stiffling stiffness of ancient Dojos weren't sparring after class ? If so then you will be displaying an ignorance of the nature of true martial artists. It is impossible to not spar if you are a fighter - because then you are a dancer. As a small child I used to practice fighting with my friends - LONG before I read Tao of JKD and learned that it was actually okay to spar up. but nobody else was doing it, you say ? Those who actually understand Bruce Lee listen to him when he says "Take the stairs, stand on one leg when you tie your shoes" etc. Do you honestly think that he was the first person to figure that out ? Jeez. Movie star worshipper. >>>PS<<<