Sens55

I think the differences lie not so much in what is "in" the art, as the emphasis that each focuses on. It would be very difficult to say even then, as there are many styles of TKD that have different emphasis. Some are sport, some are traditional, some have a 50/50 hand/foot emphasis, some are 90/10. So any response would have to be based upon generalizations. My question to you would be, "Why do you want to know"? Are you looking to take up TKD? Or just compare them? It's worth noting that many TKD styles have most elements of Hapkido in them as well (especially the traditional styles) and others teach Hapkido to their advanced belts. So, is your question, is it one of curiousity? Or are you trying to make a point?

I couldn't see myself doing it. Unless of course my wife was feeling frisky...then all bets are off!

I can't stand them. I think it's nothing more than gymnastics in a gi. Yes, it's nice to look at, but the same can be said for gymnastics. I can't possibly imagine spending the kind of time it takes to do the routines on something that'll I'll never use another day in my life. I would never belong to a dojo that performs in such tournaments either. Oh well, to each his own.

I have to disagree with Black Dragon. If you both like each other, enjoy each other's company, then go for it. Heck, you've got a common interest, which is always nice. You've got built in training partner and such. You just need to be mature enough to separate your roles as students in a dojo and that of bf/gf. Black Dragon does have a good concept though in keeping your eyes open to the future, but as the old saying goes, "don't forget to stop and smell the roses." And, I would think that this might be a rose.

I would try talking to her before hand. Say something like "Hey, I'm working on my next belt, and I REALLY want to get this right. Can we make sure to stay focused tonight? Thanks." If she even has a passing interest in you, she should agree. Make it clear you're serious about your training and don't give in. Then, if she starts to goof, you can remind her of her promise. It may take a few lessons, but soon she'll realize that if she wants to work out with you, she has to be serious. So she'll either get serious to stay with you, or decide she'd rather goof with someone else. Again, the key is to get her to agree to be serious, then you can use her promise as leverage.

I don't think anyone can name them all. Besides, "new" ones are sprouting up all the time. A lot of instructors like to change a few elements of what they began in or blend a few of the arts they study into one, "new" art and give it a new name.

I'm glad that's not an issue for us. Our instructor doesn't care. As long at the dobuk/gi fits and is clean, he doesn't care. In fact, he bought the school from another instructor who couldn't make it go. There are shelves full of dobuks and he loans them to new students when they come in to see if they like it. If they do, and they stick with it they can keep it or order another one, and it can be a gi or a dobuk. Of course, these dobuks have the name of the FORMER school on them. Our classes are quite colorful. We have some that wear just the traditional Korean dobuks in white with black V neck, others wear black ones, some wear gis that are black, white, red, blue or gold (yes GOLD) and sometimes a combination of the above (i.e. black top, white bottoms). Some also wear Hapkido gi tops in varying colors. His attitude is, the name on the back doesn't matter in our dojang, it's only when we go to tournaments. Otherwise, wear what works. He actually claims that's part of the "Moo Duk Kwan" tradition. He normally wears the super heavy canvas black gi, even in the summer.

It depends. If you're an instructor then there's absolutely no way you should do it. If you're both students, then it depends. The same argument is always said about never dating coworkers. And, as many have already pointed out, the repurcussions of it not working out can be drastic. But at the same time, love conquers all. If she's the right one, then the rest of the advice wouldn't matter, you'd find a way to make it happen. I'd certainly take it slow, see if she feels the safe and go from there. I'd also be careful about displaying too much affection near the dojo. But, if handled properly, it can be fun. There are husband/wife teams at our school (including my instructor and his wife) and it works fine.

Interesting to see all the different belt systems even within the same art. My instructor bought our school from another instructor a few years back. As such, he inherited their structure for a while. It was white, yellow, green, blue, red, brown, poom (1/2 red, 1/2 black ) and then black. Each level has a black stripe level as well the denotes a slightly higher rank (i.e. yellow, yellow-stripe, green, green-stripe), but it's possible to go from yellow straight to green depending on a lot of things. He felt the old school liked more ranks because they could generate more income by testing more frequently and keeping people happy by promoting them. He's slowly started transitioning to the same belts, but eliminating the stripe and the poom belt. It means more time in grade for each student, but he likes the more traditional touch. He's just slowly promoting people only to a solid color, and then won't let them test again until he feels they're ready to go to the next solid color. He'd eliminate the stripes altogether but he's not sure about what to do for the kids. He knows the kids need more continual reinforcement. He's waivering between keeping the stripes just for the kids, or by removing them and just using the "tip" concept for them. If anyone has any advice or faced similar issues, I'd be glad to hear it. My instructor has asked us seniors a few times what we think, so I know he wants some input.

Most major universities have lots of different MA clubs you can join for little or no cost. You can take some of the classes for credit. However, I'd ask why you might want to. Having a degree in MA may or may not be very marketable.

The only one I know of is https://www.combat-ajj.com It's not a great site. The instructor is much better at instructing than marketing. He's actually quite cool, but the site is a little cheezy. He's been doing this pretty much his entire life. He can still roll a little, but mostly he preps guys to do NHB matches. More of a corner man if you will.

Tibby, Remind me not to come to your neck of the woods. That's certainly not a great visual on police officers! I can say that doesn't describe most of the officers around here. Granted, not all are great, but they're pretty fit professionals. Most have at least some college. You can't get promoted too far in the KCPD without at a CJ degree. Plus, the head of the PD set up physical standards very similar to what the military does as far as annual physical fitness tests. And, no, I'm not a police officer. Just feel many of them get a crappy rep. Most don't get paid squat and everybody hates them...until you need them, then they're your best friend.

He may be "lucky", but he's probably to broke to continue to pay for his training. Even for a first time offender the legal fees must have been astronomical. I'd call that a phyrric victory at best.

Sansoouser, I have to disagree. I consider myself to be a relatively big guy, 6' 300 lbs. I'm not in perfect condition, but I'm not too out of shape. And I can say that if I can get a smaller guy on the ground I feel I have an advantage. If the smaller guy can move and punch and kick, they just wear me out standing up because I can't catch them. But if I can get them down, I can make them swim through my weight. Plus, I'm pretty strong, so as a last resort, I can outmuscle them for short periods. I do know what Stoneskin means though. I have thick arms and legs that are relatively short. It can be difficult to lock some of the moves because my arms or legs just aren't long enough (or more accurately, they're too thick to do it easily). My instructor is working with me to find a better way to set them up so I can more easily slide into them. Remember, gravity's not just a good idea....it's a law.

Simon, Don't think that you have to be flexible to perform TKD. Your flexibility comes FROM studying it. Most beginners do low, slow kicks to build form, strength, balance and flexibility. Then, as you progress your kicks get higher, faster, stronger and quicker. But most students don't start out that way.

Gino, Good advice on not being lawyers. Even then, there are more than one lawyer invovled in any trial or lawsuit, meaning they each see a way to present their client's side in court and win. Obviously one won't. That's why I said what I said earlier. If I can see trouble brewing, I vacate. But if I'm pushed, I'll do what I have to do to get it over with and fast. I'll let the lawyers fight about it later. If you're actually in a confrontation and you're thinking about what is the perfect blend of "neutralizing" force, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage and could get yourself hurt. You pointed out that the wrong decision might lose your freedom. Maybe. But again, you have to be alive to be incarcerated. And I can't think of anything more tragic than someone who had the ability to adequately defend themselves after years in the dojo only to be killed because they underestimated what was actually "neutralizing" force or they were thinking about applying the "proper" amount of force and were mowed down while they were trying to be humane.

That's a loaded question. Seriously, I've had graduate level economics classes that could argue about this for days! There are many factors that determine the market rate. As most have pointed out, quality isn't always an indicator, but it might be. Obviously someone in wealthier area might charge more than inner city instruction for a variety of reasons, even it were the exact same school. More affluent areas will have higher overhead (rent, insurance & utilities) but it will also try to market itself to those that can afford those higher fees. Different parts of the country have different costs of living (compare rent in NY city to Des Moines, IA for example). Usually, though, incomes are comparably higher in those areas to compensate for the higher costs. As such, fees will vary, but a $30/month fee in one area may actually have the same economic impact on you as a $100/month fee might to someone in another area. (I live in a nicer part of KC, and fees range between $60/month to $100/month). However, the median income (and rent) in our part of town is significantly higher than the national averages, so it stands to reason this might be a little higher than the same instruction in another part of town. So, what it really boils down to is...how much are you willing to pay for quality MA instruction? That's what it will cost. You'll find something that fits in that range. If you value it more, you may pay more. If you think it's trivial, you won't pay much. I make my living in sales, and I like to say to prospects that it's NEVER about the money. If it were, we'd all drive Fiestas, Yugos or Geo Metros (or Vespas!). But most of us don't. The reason is, we are willing to pay more to obtain value that we believe is relevant. That additional value carries additional cost. However, you will reach a level where you no longer see the value being worth the additional cost (i.e. the leather upholstery isn't worth $1500 to you) so you reach your equalibrium between the cost and the value. You may never have given it that much conscious decision, but that's usually the way it works. As an example, many people will say that they can't afford something they want. But if you ask them if the item they want were ABSOLUTELY vital to their (or their family's survival) could they afford it, and in most (but not all) instances they will say "Yeah, if it were really that vital." So, at that point you've proven that they CAN really afford it, they're just not willing to sacrifice other aspects of their life for it. Same here. If MA is vital to you and your identity, you'll find a way to make it work at any cost. Sorry, a little bit of an Econ and a Sales class there.

Cybren, I absolutely agree. In fact, whether it's Spetnatz, Rangers, SEALS or regular Infantry combatives, one could easily make the argument that what they learn is MORE of a martial art than what we learn. Their training is based upon the realities of a 21st century battlefield while what we learn is based upon the battlefield situation of centuries past. Of course, some could have issue with the term "art" in relation to combatives. But that argument could be made about many styles of MA. Regardless, anyone who has issue with it needs to forget their concept of what MA is and look up the term "martial" in the dictionary. To save a few of you the effort, Webster's Student Dictionary (American Edition, 1999) defines the term "martial" as: adj. referring to war; martial music = marches p;layed by military bands; martial law = maintenance of law by the military instead of the police. Using this pattern we can see that we can loosely define "martial arts" as any art used by the military. So, by definition, anything taught in any military school is a martial art. (this includes weaponry as well as intelligence gathering).

Of course there are elements of older Korean styles in it as well. When they could, they attempted to use what they could from Tae Kyon. I don't think anyone would say that TKD is a Korean knock off of Karate. It's just that some in TKD attempt to make it out as a totally "Korean" style, when that, in my opinion, is not true. It has a lot of blended styles in it, and there's no shame in that.

I frequently have one of those nights. I think it's because the more I know, the more I know I don't know. In the quest for growth and perfection you realize something you've been doing for 2 years, while passable, is missing a small something. Trying to fix it is like tearing it down and building it back up. Same with my golf swing. One lesson from a "pro" and my game's in hole for weeks. My only consolation is that my bad nights aren't as bad as my previous bad nights. In other words, I bite, but I bite better than I did last year.

All I know is if someone whipped my kids with a switch, they'd better have a damn good lawyer, and depending on the severity, a bulletproof vest.

There's a difference between going to jail and being convicted for anything. At least in the US. Anymore they'll take both combatants in to sort out the details and prevent it from escalating after the cops leave. They do that a lot in domestic squabbles as well. That doesn't mean you'll stay in jail or that you'll be convicted of anything.

Tibby, I lived in LC from about '74 to '83

Bustr, I don't doubt that the organization you're talking about has issues. My warning was more of a warning to you because you named their name on a public board and made a specific claim that switches were used on kids. You've just revealed that you didn't actually view it, you heard it from another individual. Regardless of how credible that individual is, it's hearsay. Now, the problem could be that someone in here was thinking of joining that school and, because of your statement, did not. At that point it can be argued that you caused them fiscal damage because you posted hearsay on a public board and that it may turn out to be false, could open you up for a lawsuit. Now, I highly doubt someone's going to sue you for one student. But if you continue to say these things and it damages their reputation based on what could be false accusations and they go out of business, that's another issue altogether. Again, I'm not saying that you should brag about the school, but just be careful about what you say when you specifically mention names because you put yourself at risk needlessly. Of course, if you saw it and can verify it yourself, that's another thing altogether. (You might still get sued, but your chances of winning are higher). On the kid’s front, I disagree with you on a lot of those things. I'm going to guess that you don't have kids yourself. Most kids don't have much of an attention span. Some kids are more focused by nature, some do not. Some suffer from ADD and hyperactivity which can make the same kid fine one day and a pain the next. I also pay the fees for a few underprivileged kids to attend our school. I suspect that they may not be getting fed regularly. If not, then how can they be expected to pay attention? Because of this should they be prevented from attending? I could make the point that they, above all others, need this more than any others. I believe you feel kids should master themselves before they attempt to master the art. But do you believe that maybe the art may be the key to teaching them to master themselves? If you attend classes at the same time as the kids, it can be frustrating since it can eat into your time when they act up. But I also get the impression that you're concerned about what the "general public" thinks of karate. Who cares? If they think it's great, does that my you, your art and your school better? If they think is a day care, does that make your training any less important? If you check your history, you'll see that martial arts has been alternately revered and despised over the years, but it's none the worse for the wear. Don't allow the opinions of others to impact your self esteem. It doesn't make it any less macho. And, as far as the open house, that's basically what it is. An instructor attends and then takes the kids out for a class. He has them do a few punches and kicks, maybe a few self-defense techniques and then they eat cake & ice cream. It has a lot of appeal for younger kids that are actually in the school to bring in their non-MA friends and show them what they do. From a marketing perspective its better than an opening house because you have a hook for attendance that you'd never get with an open house. And, regardless of how anyone likes it, schools need to at least be profitable if they plan on being around. And kids bring in $. I've seen one kid start, then a sibling and then a parent. So a 7 yo's interest brought in 3 paying customers. A birthday party will bring in 10-20 new kids, each with the potential for bringing in more business. If you put the numbers together, you'll realize it's an easy way to get more business, if your school has a kids program. Obviously some schools don't, and that's fine. But for those that do, it's cheap, easy, and at the very least earns a little fee for times the gym would normally be closed

I believe whole-heartedly in cross-training. Look at all of the "traditional" arts and it's obvious that even thousands of years ago they were already doing that. Maybe not with the ease that we can today, but they did it. That's why you'll see Chinese influence in Okinawan Karate and both influences in traditional TKD and such. I have moved a lot over my life and pretty much taken whatever was available in my area, but usually for shorter durations of about a year. Now that I've settled down I have taken Moo Duk Kwan for the last few years. I've also done a little BJJ, but it was inconvenient and the school just wasn't for me (not the style, the school). I've recently taken up American Ji Jutsu, which is basically very similar to BJJ, but they have more "American" elements like boxing and wrestling thrown in. I sought out BJJ and AJJ to offset a glaring weakness in my MDK, and that was a ground game. My instructor was a little hurt, because as a traditionalist, he believes MDK to be the best, and in his eyes complete. But as I was able to point out, I'm a big guy. As such it is very difficult for me to do a lot of the moves in that art (which is part of the reason I chose it...needed to stretch myself - figuratively and literally). However, I have a natural advantage in going to ground. Most people have a very difficult time in moving me, but I didn't really know what to do on the ground and would have to go on instinct. With a little ground knowledge, it coudn't help make me complete. He didn't disagree. He never would have tried to stop me, just persuade me. The times we train do not conflict, so it doesn't take away from either.