Shorin Ryuu

That's good to hear . Granted, everything won't be a one-for-one similarity, as Okinawans discarded what didn't work for them and took what worked for them. In effect, they saw what techniques worked with Okinawan principles and kept them (most all principles are the same between most effective styles). I have a friend who is taking Pa Kua/Bagua who trained with me for four years in Shorin Ryu. He says the two are extremely similar in many underlying principles and sees how it can enhance his karate training. Likewise, I'm currently reading Cheng Tzu's Thirteen Treatises on Tai Chi Ch'uan and am struck by almost exactly the same wording in explaining concepts and techniques used in the book on Tai Chi and what my Okinawan karate teachers have taught me. 47MartialMan: My instructor doesn't have a website or anything. I did see an article on Machida Kenshinsai in a Japanese sword arts magazine, but I don't remember much of it because it was obviously completely in Japanese and I didn't read too much of it due to time (I had like 2 minutes). It basically said that he is not real famous, but is pretty darn good.

It's a branch of Muso Shinden Ryu. For all that Draeger does not consider it to be koryuu, I see nothing wrong with it. It doesn't belong to a specific organization. I joined it because after a while, you can just tell if an instructor "has it", and this one does. It doesn't have kendo in it (although we do kumite) and at the later levels, tameshi-waza. He says that if students become good enough (he's only been teaching for 5 years, so most students are relatively new), they can progress to steel on steel, but that is obviously a long time from now. He travels to Japan once or twice a year to train with his teacher, Machida Kenshinsai. There is a trip this year, but a bit too expensive (I might go if I can arrange my own lodgings and travel over there...my instructor likes to stay in expensive places). The only thing that bothers me about this is that Van Donk (remember from that ridiculous distance learning thread) claims Machida as one of his instructors, although he only claims he was only given a shodan level. At any rate, as I said, my instructor "has it" so I don't really worry.

Well, first of all, let me throw in some other advice. If you aren't able to work out (heavily, it implies) for 3 years, then that still isn't an excuse to get fat. This isn't a me bashing on you session. I'm just trying to point out that you are obviously not eating correctly (too much of the bad, not enough of the good, or maybe just plain too much). Otherwise, you would not be getting fat... I mention this because diet is as important as training in terms of your exercise and your health. Most people overlook this and just eat whatever they want while justifying it with "I burn a lot of calories." Health is more than burning calories, as your body can burn different calories with different effects... You shouldn't need a metabolism supplement, all you need is a proper diet. As I am going for the Guiness Book of World Records in the "How many times some guy can mention a book in the same forum", I will recommend the Okinawa Program that has good nutritional info, meal plans, advice, all that. I don't follow the structured plan, but I use that info to plan what I eat. Anyway, I will respond with what I am sure was more along the lines of what you wanted to hear... As far as cardio goes, I recommend swimming. It is the least impact-heavy pure cardio on your body and builds muscle pretty well. If you want solid muscle and no fat, focus on lower weights and higher reps. I don't want to turn this into another muscle building topic, I'm just saying what has always worked for me. But you definitely need to add some weight training (body weight or free-weights or otherwise) because although jujitsu can be pretty tiring, it doesn't specifically have gaining muscle as its goal. And make sure your muscles have time to rest in between sessions. Many athletes overlook the value of muscle recovery.

I think he was referring to the fact that if you can only mimic moves and not have a true understanding of martial arts, then when you get old, you can't do anything, because as you get old, you get weaker (which is why you need to get more efficient). The fact that he mentioned if you only knew techniques and kumite exclusively, then you would be out of luck means that this isn't always the case. He then adds that forms are necessary (implying that if you did those, then you would have a broader understanding of martial arts and you wouldn't be "out"). I'm just giving the benefit of the doubt on this one...

Just some responses... As far as breathing goes, in the Shuri-Te branch of Okinawan karate, all the breathing is natural, nothing is forced, as are the stances. As I mentioned in my earlier post, some of these are even more natural than a lot of kung fu styles (but we've addressed the diversity of these...). Someone mentioned that karate did not connect the body. As someone mentioned in response, good karate is fluid. Modern variants of karate do not connect the body. They rely on muscle to transition in movement and hold in stillness. This is not the same for traditional Okinawan karate. And, as I mentioned before, karate is merely a blend of Okinawan styles and Chinese styles. There are some differences, but you are really barking up the wrong tree when you say that karate is hard, rigid, too linear, etc. Those apply to modern versions of karate. Traditional Okinawan karate is different from these, and is still taught today.

I've seen some videos of Shimabukuro Tatsuo. I've seen him rotate to the 45 degree angle frequently, despite the tate that he taught to everyone else.

Just so you know, all the things you mentioned are a big part of true traditional te and toute (later renamed karate). The karate that you are deprecating is a shallow modern version of the original. Styles extremely close to the original are still being taught today and can be found. You just have to have a discriminating eye. Obviously, what you saw was not karate. As for the name kenpo itself, it is now (and always has been) used in as broad of a context as karate is nowadays. Kenpo is simply a generic term for fist fighting, which includes all the hand techniques you mentioned. It was used that way in old times in Japan and is still used that way, although karate is more readily identifiable in the minds of most Japanese. Kenpo does tend to have more connotations of Chinese systems in the minds of the Japanese though.

At one point in history there were over 700 styles of jujutsu... This guy is claiming he combined ALL of them?? Actually, if I recall my history correctly, the Dai Nippon Butokukai was established around the beginning of the Meiji era and with the help of giants like Jigoro Kano, helped to pretty much unify the styles of jujitsu and kenjutsu into one entity (under their respective names, judo and kendo).

Just make sure you don't write off a school simply because it seems lopsided. I have been to a dojo where there was an 8th dan, a 7th dan, a few 6th and 5th dans and about 15 other dan levels. These were legitimate rankings. The 8th dan is the head of our system in North America and has refused every dan promotion at least once...since he has round eyes, as he puts it, he won't get any higher, but for an American to be promoted to 8th dan in a traditional Okinawan system is rare indeed (In most Okinawan systems, 9th dan is reserved for the successors to the system). In fact, he is senior to almost everyone in our system, Okinawans included as he has been training for a very long time. In addition, the shodans were far better than a lot of sandans and yondans I have seen in other places (not in the same style, usually). This kind of dojo is an exception to the rule, though. All too often I have seen 8th dans and 9th dans who looked like nidans maybe who bought a certificate off of ebay...

Yes. Shotokan relies more upon pure muscle strength to transition from stance to stance rather than a natural transition brought about by internal body mechanics. Furthermore, the method of striking is much more external (muscles and heavy hip rotation) rather than internal (structure, whipping and gamaku). This isn't to say that there aren't some natural mechanics to it, but there is a significant lack of them in my opinion. Note that this doesn't refer to simply being relaxed (although that is a big portion). This also includes the movement throughout and within the execution of any number of techniques. It can also be considered hard because of the energy deadlocking. This is outwardly visible in that most Shotokan practitioners look very rigid when doing kata or sometimes even kumite. Some people compensate for this by working the muscles harder and can pass off for looking fluid and natural in their movements. But this isn't true fluidity, this is forced fluidity. These are the vast majority of Shotokan stylists I have met, although the same exceptions to the rule disclaimer applies here.

I've heard that in order for a jo to be customized to your height, it had reach from the ground to your armpit. I've heard this from my Iaido instructor and not from any of my Okinawan karate instructors in the past (I never asked though). But yes, traditional height is 4 feet long for it. I'll have to ask him why it would reach to the armpit. I can't imagine that it would be used to support the body weight as that's dangerous (underneath the armpit are a multitude of vulnerable areas you don't want to press...they are covered by your arms for a reason). As far as the bo height goes, I've heard two theories. One is that it should be about a fist length above your head, the other is that it should be 6 ft long. Both theories might be true. The first probably derives from personal staffs that people might carry (maybe more of the commoners? The bo is one of those weapons that commoners were able to have and mask it as other things as opposed to things like the sai, which commoners did not have) while the second I believe comes from the fact that when guards were no longer allowed to carry blades, their spears and halberds were cut at the six feet height. This seems perhaps verifiable because you see short Okinawan masters use 6 foot bo all the time, which are well above their head.

Meditation isn't forced, it is done. The act of forcing it disrupts the purity of the meditation. When yoda says "do or do not, there is no try", he's kind of alluding to this (as there were a lot of zen overtones to star wars). There's always all sorts of stories people like to use to illustrate that meditation or zen can not be forced. I don't remember the exact wording of this one, and I don't care to look it up, but this one goes something like this. A student sought out a famous sword master seeking instruction. He asked the sword master how long it would take him if he to master the sword if he tried hard. The master replied that it would take him ten years. The student then asked how long it would take if he tried twice as hard, to which the master responded that it would take 25 years. Finally, the student asked that if he tried with all his might, how long would it take. The master replied that it would take a lifetime, if it ever happened at all. Don't take the wrong message from this. People like to point to this and say that you must never think, only feel when taking martial arts. I believe that you have to do both, but never let your thinking get in the way of feeling. In the case of meditation, you must simply command (without forcing, without commanding) it to happen. In fact, it happens on it's own, because something as concrete as your self does not exist...but that's all zen anyway. That is why some monks would focus on a mandala or repeat a mantra, because that act of repetition or abstract focus would empty themselves. I prefer simply have it happen. I don't, for example, prefer the zen buddhist way. Back then, the master would give the student a koan to solve at the beginning of the day. If the student did not get it, he would be mercilessly beaten. The fear of being beaten was supposed to break the mind from all rational thought and help the student to achieve zen...just an interesting note on how it was "back in the old days". Point is, if you are forcing yourself, then you are going about it the wrong way.

As someone who boxed in college for a while, I have to agree that you can not teach yourself. Although I changed my views on boxing since then (I think there are too many long term health concerns associated with it), I still respect the degree of skill and knowledge within the sport. Therefore, it isn't simply just hitting the other person (although that in and of itself has loads of theory and technique) and requires an excellent coach (not to mention lots of hard work). At the Air Force Academy, we had coaches that taught the basics over and over and over. And our school has almost always won nationals in the past 25 years (we got second when we didn't win).

Boondock Saints...what an excellent movie...

The agena sai were weighted a bit heavy, perhaps more for energy transfer (as the name implies) for different techniques. I simply prefer lighter sai for quicker manipulation. All the same, as harleyt26 mentioned that he will do, I might buy one down the line, anyway.

I second that nomination. I have weapons from Crane Mountain that are simply excellent works of craftmanship by people that know what they are doing.

All I got to say is make sure that anything you strike has some give. If it doesn't, you are just setting yourself up for long-term (and usually short-term) damage to your body.

Hmmm...you can still eat a lot of protein if your body actually needs it, but instead of eating eggs, use tofu...a little bit of turmeric gives it a little color and add other things to make it taste better. Soy protein is so much healthier than animal protein, and contains everything you need for building muscles.

I don't drink soy milk for protein...I get that elsewhere. I drink soy milk because it is better for you. It is plant based, so there are less free radicals (whenever you see anything that lauds its anti-oxidant content, it is because anti-oxidants fight free radicals) that cause cancer. It contains isoflavones, which are good for you and has a lower glycemic index. Furthermore, as mentioned before, the human body is different. In fact, many people grow lactose intolerant as they age. It is simply a fact that the human body is not specifically supposed to take in milk (we just have been doing so for a very long time) from cows, or humans, for that matter after a certain age. My mother is a registered nurse and has verified this information. Also, I'll plug the book The Okinawa Program (as usual) just because it has excellent aging and nutrition info...

I'm appalled...I mean amazed no one has mentioned this (although for some they maybe took it for granted and didn't feel the need to) part: Breathe out when you go down and in when you go up. There are too many people that I see that don't control their breathing or don't breathe at all...

I'm sure (but not positive) that Motobu kumite most likely refers to Motobu Choki rather than Motobu Choyu. Choyu got to inherit the family system while Choki had to fend for himself for his training. Consequently, he constantly made efforts to find out the balance between pure execution of techniques and the limitations that you have in not wanting to injure your partner. Therefore, if you want to find out more about Motobu kumite, look up Motobu Choki, as someone mentioned. By the way, the higher blocks of the Motobu system seems characteristic of traditional Okinawan karate because the block is more of a directed attack (that happens to block at the same time). Viewed as a block, it seems absurdly high, but as they say, there are no blocks in karate...

I hate to burst your bubble, but what overseas invasion where they talking about? The Satsuma samurai were the de facto rulers of Okinawa since the 1600s, long before it was officially annexed by Japan in the late 1880s, I believe. The fact that they lasted more than a few days (back in the 1600s) against fully armed Satsuma samurai is a testament to their spirit, but the outcome was inevitable. Even before the samurai arrived, the Okinawan king had in place a weapons ban. At any rate, any myths you hear of Okinawan karate being used to fend off invading hordes of whatever are sadly, just myths. A lot of Okinawans like to propogate these, but it falls along the same line of Davy Crockett here in the states or just pride and embellishment. Don't get me wrong, this stuff works. Against an army, it doesn't. Anyway, this might simply be an editorial insert by some idiot...I mean person who knows nothing about karate (referring to the Amazon description). For one thing, Okinawan karate was not a "hard" style that became Shotokan... Okinawan karate is a mix of hard and soft, and Shotokan karate was originally taught that way. Even during Funakoshi's lifetime, however, Shotokan became the "hard" style it is today. He even lamented this after watching a performance for the Butokukai... No offense, but this book seems to be highly spun...

One thing I would like to recommend is that if you have just been learning techniques and not the concepts behind them, then you should re-evaluate your training. Yes, techniques are important, it is how you apply a concept to a combat situation. However, the principle behind it is more important. If you know the principle behind it, then you can improvise your techniques to an almost infinite number of combinations, all you have to do is keep your contact and energy with the opponent. Experiment with a willing partner (do techniques correctly but don't hurt him or her) and ask your teacher for advice. Don't take this the wrong way, but are you a shodan or higher? This isn't questioning your skill, but it is rather suggesting that maybe your teacher recognizes that you have learned these techniques well, and now your teacher wants you to "take the extra step" and start LEARNING rather than COPYING. If I am totally off the mark, please let me know. If you are simply interested in learning different techniques from other styles because you want a different perspective of common martial arts principles, then email me from my profile (I'd prefer my real one, not a forum message) and I'd love to talk more in detail...but keep in mind, it is much harder to explain techniques in print than in person...

I actually have seen some of those panther production videos (I bought a few off of ebay out of curiousity). If you are referring to the ones made by Mikio Nushiuchi, he is a respected and highly skilled traditional martial artist. He actually was a student of Shinpo Matayoshi. Therefore, a lot of the kata is the more simple training kata from the Matayoshi weapons system. I actually have not seen that nunchaku one (although it's lying on my shelf), his videos do list all the various types of grips used. I think those techniques can easily be adapted to holding them closer to the end of the handle. If anything, I'm sure the different handle grip is more for it's grappling application than anything else. It may simply be his preference to do it that way. The nunchaku, out of all the weapons of Okinawan kobudo are perhaps the least formalized. Therefore, it is not entirely surprising to see even this variation. I do have some of his other videos that I have watched as well, and they seem to have a lot of sound practice in them (even if some of the theories he presents on the origins of some weapons are the standard "myth" variety).

Thank you for giving me some info. By all means, if you fee like it, continue.