Revario

Hello and thank you all again for your contributions. No I do not. And I think that may be a part of the issue. Rank gives an idea as per one knowledge of THAT system in particular not of efficiency, understanding of Martial Arts concepts and continuum. Not to go in specific details of my life but my psychologist seems to think that since it is a something that I have been struggling with for more then a year and not resolved it is a cause and aspect of my depression I cannot disregard. Or perhaps because I am obsessing over it, don't have interest in people or friends that do not relate which isolates me furthermore. Sorry if it caused confusion as to me the anguish of continuing to bang my head against a figurative wall is very real to me. I am finally trying to seek solutions by asking directly. I feel I have asked similar questions in other format on this forum. And the answers seem to always be relatively similar. Which makes me think that I am most likely wrong for doing what I do. Everyone's answer seems to be to put up or shut up. Learn the system regardless (like we all had to) and THEN you can do as you please. My question/dilemma is why wait? Tradition has to have reason. We don't repeat what was done in the past just to repeat it mindlessly. Many seems to be of that opinion (not just in regards to Martial Arts but many aspects in life) to keep things as they are since it was good for them therefore it shall be good for everyone... Seems like I will have to learn to accept that fact plain and simple or move on and not be bothered. Ranks over Skills is what I gather everywhere in regards to this.

First and foremost thank you for taking the time to answer and follow up. I wish! That would be an amazing time indeed. Him and a few others do practice in a very practical manner. I know of a few in Canada just not in proximity. Oh yes absolutely, this man has been a great inspiration. I have worked on 2 of those 3 parts. System delivery is not something I am strong in in the sense of marketing or promotion. A curriculum as well as a handbook have been completed relatively recently. You are absolutely correct, not many have an interest in training that way as Traditional Martial Artists. I am not worried about ever having many students as I prefer the few who are dedicated then the many who come and go and take it as a form of "entertainement". Training with them is great especially as they come from different Arts and it allows for interesting exchange of techniques and surprises. Knowing in advance how one will respond ruins the spontaneity so I absolutely like to exchange with others. That is where I honestly have an issue. I disagree with about 80% of how general classes are done. This is the part that is causing me anguish as I know I should and it would be the normal/moral thing to do but since so much of the time is spent on things I honestly and sincerely do not agree with but bite my tongue and say nothing out of respect is more then what is good out of it. I recognise myself doing exactly that. As much as I work on my on Way, I seem to want to not be alone in that. Whether it is my peers or instructors at Dojo, I do wish for them to see things my way. It would be dishonest to say I would not like that, it would be amazing to have many people who study the same as I do and can relate in the same way that I do. I think it is part of the human experience to be with people who share similar experiences as ourselves and be able to exchange with them. ( A bit like the goal of this forum as well as all online or even real life communities). I realise I am asking for the impossible and things outside of my control and that is part of the issue. Continuing to train solo and keep doing what I do is great, I am just at a point where I wonder if it is worth it. Isn't the human experience something meant to be shared; I feel the more I keep training the more I isolate myself. Either physically (by training alone) or mentally (by being in a class but not agreeing in silence and not sharing my perspective, just going through the motions). I would want to keep training and doing what I do, I just have to not give up, believe in myself and know it will all come to fruition at a certain point. The meantime is the rough depressing part however, I sure would be happy to find a way that it is a lot less. Again, Thank you very much for your advice and help on this matter.

I will offer you a long form version of a personal introduction in regards to my Martial Path. I expect lots of judgement as it as been the usual way I am receieved. As hard as it is to introduce oneself experience and vision of Martial Art in words as action speaks louder, here we go: I have started my martial arts path relatively young, I was 6 years old ( I am 40 now) when I took my first class in Chito-Kan in the village (more of a city by now) I was living. I learned much later it was a mix of Chito Ryu, Shotokan and Jeet Kun Do… I stayed there for a good 6 years and made it to First Kyu (altough I never really showed up after passing the exam to even pick up the belt). I, at the time, took a break to waste my early teenage years. Within 3 years (by the time I was 15) I got back into it within the form of Kung Fu with a group which was doing Fang Shen Do at that time. I did not like my experience with that art. The way of practicing was very different than what I was used to and how it translated to combat made little to no sense to me. I stayed for about a summer. I again came back to Martial Arts in my early 20s, this time with the newest form of combat which the called Krav Maga, Oh was that different. Their way of thinking, training and combat were all things I had never seen before. It was like I walked into a dream. All the things I was looking for were there. A major focus on self defense, lots of practice with opponents that are not cooperative but resist and challenge your tactic. Learning based on principles not specific techniques in a sequence. Lots of hard sparring and testing of skills. Not a fan of the weapon stuff but nevertheless, interesting to explore and realise the existence of it. All in all, Krav Maga was a true eye opener for me in the way martial arts are meant to be practiced. I have to admit that the place I trained was blessed with the perfect mix of a teacher that was extremely technical (I know I am contradicting previous statements) in his approach in the sense that he wished to see proper body movement and body mechanics not just punch kick for the sake of punch kick. It also had a few other students around the same age as I am (was back then) and had similar interest to test themselves a lot in their practice. Sparring and live testing of skills was mandatory and something we all actually wanted to do and try. This resulted in some of the most effective lessons in Martial Arts I have had the opportunity to have. I highly understand how Krav Maga gets a bad name however as this seems to be very far from the experience most have with that form of self defense… Unfortunately. This also eventually came to an end but for different reasons. I saw something in Krav Maga that brought me back to my true nature and practice : Karate. I took again another break from training in classes and went back to the ‘’lab’’ and started doing deep research into Karate, its historicity, the way it is practiced, the way it was practiced, the way it was meant to practice. I did research on self defense in a psychological as well as social perspective. Studied the law and criminology in the aspect of violent acts, how they arise, how humans respond to it, how the psychology of the brain works in such situations, from the perpetrator, to the victim, to a responder or a bystander’s point of view. I wanted to have a full perspective and understand of martial arts, why I trained and what I trained into as well as how. What and how things have been lost in between then and now. Many things can be said as per the how, whether it is the popularisation of it in Japan by Funakoshi Ginchin, the changes of the times, the exposition to Western boxing by Japanese people, the differences of interpretation between Okinawa and Japan, the political reasons, the choice of reaching more people and making it a national ‘’sport’’ etc… The way it is now mostly practiced, Karate appears to be separated by the 3 big Ks (Kihon, Kata, Kumite). We can see it in competitions as well as how each components is practiced. Kumite is practiced at a long range distance as this is where people bow in competition. This is again reflected in the way most practice their combat for Karate, a practice for competition. Kata is focused on forms and how entertaining/ exciting/ flashy one can be with their Kata. The focus is on the appearance of it as a spectacle akin to a dance performance. Kihon are similar to Kata in the sense that they are performed for the form of it which may or may not lead to Kumite drills. The self defense component is simply unrealistic movements pulled from Kata. Usually very intricate and fine motor skills movements in a specific sequence. The way it is meant to be practiced, which is as a self defense art in and of itself, relates and mixes the 3 big Ks. Kihon is the base of everything, Kata are specific sequences of self defence, and I stress self defense especially when it comes to range; that are to be used in Kumite. Using movements of Kata for actual defense and combat is Karate. When I refered to range, self defense does not start at the same distance that competition does, it is way closer and more relentless. What I saw of Karate when practicing Krav Maga was actually this. I saw true Karate in Krav Maga. What is called the 360 defence in Krav Maga is a Age Uke with Oi Zuki at the same time. And I say Oi even tough it may appear as a Gyaku because the focus and motion is in the lunging forward in the action. Voila! Seems in some aspect, Krav Maga understood how Karate was meant to be practiced. Whatever they did understand they did lack many other aspects of Karate which makes Karate a unique Art. With that new mentality and focus, I came back to Karate with a very different way of seeing things and practicing it. My practice is steeped in self defense. I would say it is a pleonasm to say Karate based in practical self defense as to me this is what defines Karate. And when practiced in this way, I firmly believe that it is by far the most brutal and effective method of self defense. The movements in Kata when properly understood at the right range are devastating. I, being a simple man, have decided to choose Kata that were quite easy to understand and go trought for my personal style/practice. Some may see it as limiting, I would agree. But this is a choice, some choose to practice all 94 Kata for the sake of historicity and be a literal living encyclopedia of Karate knowledge. I can only commend and appreciate those people, people like me sure need them. I chose to go the complete other way. 6 Kata is well enough for a practice based specifically in self defense. I still find it preferable to practice 1 kick 100 times then 100 kicks 1 time if we are talking efficiency only. My choice on focusing on a few Kata and the basics allows me to be quite proficient with those and have a full understanding of the intricacies with those specific options. I have decided to choose the style of Chito Ryu as the base of my style as their Kata choice is quite specific and concise. It is said to be one of the 2 styles that has direct lineage with Aragaki Seisho, the other being Goju Ryu. The similarities with Goju is more often found in certain aspects of the Kata, the regular practice however is quite different in it’s interpretation. The style is practiced like most other styles in the world nowadays, the way I dislike, but I have the opportunity of having found someone who can teach me what I want out of the style and seem to understand that and what I want to do with my practice and does not waste time on matters that are not self defense or combat related. I ran into too many schools where my views and understanding of Karate was simply intimitading instructors. Perhaps it is my seriousness about the subject and the fact that most students do it as hobby, they could do Karate, Mountain Climbing or scrapbooking it would make no difference it just passes time. I indeed take it more seriously. Self defense is pretty defined in intself. I don’t see it as a hobby or something to entertain myself but as a way of life. Perhaps that is what is meant when we say Karate-Do. However, I cannot stress this enough, if one practices Jutsu as seriously as it is meant to be, it will naturally become a way of life and nothing more. My interpretation of Karate is a no nonsense Karate steeped in Self Defense. This is what I do and represent. I train Kata specifically for self defense and drill accordingly. I spar hard with good protection and sparring is very scenario and self defense based, not sport oriented. The attacker is never attacking with a Karate attack that remains in the air for 2 seconds… I train my bodies according to self defense as well, hardening of the weapons (all striking surfaces) while also stretching the joints. Stress good eating habits and being in optimal well being 100% of the time. Because yes, even ones mental state has an effect on how well one can or want to defend themselves whether it is voluntairy or not. Which is why I truly wonder if I should persist to try to "convince" others. As brief as this can be as an introduction, I hope this gives you an idea of who I am and aspire to promote as a Martial Artist My approach towards it when visiting schools or even when I initially wished to introduce these concept at the Dojo I frequent is probably not the best as I am not the most social person. I am naturally reserved so either I say nothing and watch confused or ask leading questions as I know where I wish to take the conversation, I had interrupted as well but learned it is simpler and better to stay silent as to not insult anyone and address questions or clarifications in private as my goal is never to disrespect the school that welcomes me. My issue definitely resides in the social aspect of sharing without scaring or making people in organisation feel lesser then based on my lack of high rank but understanding of concept some claim are only hidden until 5th degree Black Belt (Its an eggageration but I think we all know org or groups like that) I have been told too often to just go do MMA or more competitive combat sport, that is not what I am looking for, I simply wish to bring the proper spirit to Traditional Martial Arts. I have a small community of Martial Artist (from various traditional Martial Arts) in my area who have similar goals and vision in regards to their art, we train on a weekly basis and that is amazing. Clearly I am not alone in this approach. What is disheartening is the lack of reciprocity and openness in the Karate community specifically where I am. Either I need to move where what I do is interesting to the world who surrounds me or keep practicing in silence/ never train the way I wish at the Dojo. Reason why I think of quitting is whenever I don't deal with that, think about it, try to make it work in the sense that people get it/ see the worth of what is being done and the reasoning behind it, I am overall more calm and relaxed (but feel I am wasting time in regards to do all the things previously mentionned). It's like letting it all go is a big stress and pressure off my shoulders. And there is the final option of simply practicing for myself and leave the rest of the world (even if I need them) be and go for complete isolation. No reason to try to share something with someone who doesn't want it so silence may be best... So if that can sum it up, that is pretty much where I am, I don't want to, but quitting might be best for everyone else and maybe me too.

Yes the Sensei, my practice and lack of understanding of it by most other people. And that is probably part of the issue, I dont see it as a hobby. Hence where the main difference in my practice comes in. As per visiting other schools, I did and was met with worst reactions then where I try to train presently. I have knowledge of where people who have a similar mindset or way of practicing are, just not physically close to where I am. And since the style of Karate I do is different at the base and adapting those Kata specifically, I am pretty much alone doing what I do, others do it with their own respective style and have managed to make a thing out of it. You may be right, either I have to stop trying to bring others to see things in a specific scope or simply let go. Only person I am letting down by removing myself from the Martial Arts is myself, and that makes it complicated...

How much of your mental health are you willing to give up for martial arts? Where it is something supposed to bring people together and build communities of like minded people, I have found that it caused more divisions and isolation especially when people have opinions and dont wish to just join to be a mindless follower. At what point does one decide that Martial Art is costing them too much and isolating them more then it brings joy to their life, is that the moment they should call it quits, or betray themselves and just continue while joining the group and hiding their true feeling? Idk, at this point I truly wonder WHY do people practice martial arts, I think most people have interest in health benefits and looking at nice forms or competitions and making money via martial arts. I am highly thinking of quitting all and make my life less stressful and more happy. I dont see a reason to keep hitting my head on a wall of unacceptance. I tried to make something else/ different. It was in vain. Good continuation to those who choose to keep Martial Arts alive, I dont think I have more to give in that aspect, Ill focus on other areas in my life.

Hi to all, bizzare question here. How would you look or feel about a student wanting to offer a specific presentation of their skills based on what you taught them and their own interpretation of it. Student has very good understanding of Martial Arts and combat with over 20 years of experience in various arts. Not the curriculum stuff that is to be regurgitated for basically confirming one can copy paste what they were shown. Would you consider this offensive? Would you appreciate the initiative? Would you find it a waste of time? Would you make it count towards actual ranking? Would you find it insulting towards the other students that do follow curriculum by the book? As ultimately a test is to confirm that the student has understood the material. Now if we want them to teach exactly how we teach I would see that it is important they stick to curriculum. If the goal is to pass on knowledge for them to live with then their adaptation and understanding would be preffered. I post here as it relates to testing but it does relate to Karate as the situation is in a Karate context. Thank you

Anyone actively spar Kobudo techniques with weapon replica either foam or of other types. With padding and protection that technology has allowwd us to have, I see no reason why we shouldn't spar and pressure test Kobudo techniques as much as we do with Karate. Having that said, does any of you have any recommendations on store options for solid replicas that can withold heavy contact. What I found in Martial Arts circuits seems to break when working harder with them. I am tempted to look into HEMA stores and LARP that may have solid version. I have had a sword of this kind so far and its one that seems to last.

Thank you both for those answers and options I didnt even think about. My Sensei is pretty old school not sure if he would be ok with camera but will definitely ask as it would be a very very viable option. As per training, I sure do on my own and with partners, it helps to perfect details and work on my own Bunkai for Kata. So it is correct to say all I "need" is the Kata forms. In quotation as I feel there is a lot more to gain by having a in person relationship with an instructor. That may be the best option for all to do it virtually. Thank you very much!!

Yes, I am looking for Kata knowledge from him. Only and specifically Kata. Not the way Bunkai are interpreted, as it is done in a non realistic manner. His focus is on curriculum and knowing things by heart, not the why but the how. My own Sensei (which I dont get to see often) teaches same style but different method and understanding of Karate. I get all knowledge needed from him. The other man would be an extra (which would become the main as I would see him more often but never relate to him...) On the other hand, why would you want someone to specifically learn a style or method they have no interest in before going to what they have an interest in? I understand having a basic knowledge and understanding of how a body moves, knowing various schools of HEMA exists, why wouldn't someone be able to start learning with a Kobudo weapon in hand? I understand tradition, I simply question the reasoning behind as I have mentionned, some style and schools have students starting with a weapon and take it from there.

My background is quite diverse. Started with Karate for a while, dipped quickly into Kung Fu Wing Chun, delved into Krav Maga with a very technical and realistic instructor (I feel important to mention it as the name has a bad reputation), and back to Karate with a specific for practicality in Karate. As part of my experience I also had the opportunity to have sparring of high intensity with people from Muay Thai and MMA. I quite agree, it makes for a poor relationship, if any at all...

Thank you Very Much!! This is quite appreciated. I am speechless

I am not a TKD practitioner myself. But my wild guess is that WTF practice it more as a sport then Martial Art focused on defense. Break falls are not important in competition. I had such a moment of realisation when sparring Kickboxing people who had great skills but didn't knew how to fall. As they explained to me, they do sport, I do Martial Arts. Certain things are not covered as not needed in competition setting.

Thank you very much for your answers. I am lucky enough to have my Sensei who is exactly as defined. We may not share ideas on various aspects BUT he sure explains why teaching is done that way or approached in a certain aspect. He is not shy to say when something is done for beginners to learn a concept that I already grasped or regurgitating techniques as he says. Its nothing that brings progress in the way I am looking for and he makes it clear when it is the case. Also doesnt fuss me too much about those as we both understand why. We do have an understanding and I would like to believe he respects my ways and vision enough to know what I actually need and not focus on all aspects. Very intrigued by the Tai Chi phase of Karate. If I could define mine it is really into practical and self defense approach. Very close range which does not offer very flashy options either. I am quite curious what you mean by it. In regards to testing, I am weird enough that I formulated my own criteria and techniques to be tested on. I really am not in sync with what most schools curriculum or requirements are. By that I mean, again focusing on the why so being able to explain, demonstrate and to use it against an unwilling opponent are more important to me then having foot turn at 45 degree, not 44 not 46, 45... Same with non Kata drill movements, one should be able to develop their own based on what they learned... In regards to the one I disagree with, that persons integrity is definitely there. He is not someone who doesnt know what they are doing. Very good teacher for kids and people with no experience. Quite rigid in his teaching but very on point. I cannot claim that the man is a bad person or teacher that would be untrue. We dont have matching understanding or personalities but that cannot take away his skills and method, the man is good in his understanding. I feel like I am the issue with my disagreements and questions. Mainly because majority of people do not train for self defense purposes so lot is lost on them. They train for health and being in shape, I train because I firmly believe Karate is the ultimate method of self defense when studied appropriately. I see it as a close range art that is right in between striking and grappling. The approach in general dojo session is more on sport karate (Bogu Kumite) which does not bridge the gap between Kata and Kumite, which is what I focus on specifically. To put background and classes in perspective, I use public transport and walk to the dojo, most have a luxury vehicule to show up. I live in a different reality then they do. Self defense to me is real and can happen any travel or time. To them, its hard to run into a violent stranger when one only frequents people they want to. All in all, I will give an honest try to integrate and not ask hard/ harsh questions, take the knowledge and do what I need with it outside of class. As it was mentionned, learning has been affected by it in the past as it didnt make me feel like I wanted to go next class. Its a battle every time to know you will go and have to again (as we do it at work enough) not be myself and follow orders... I guess I simply have to be stronger as a person, step on wtv is my issue with the man and proceed in my path once done with his learnings. (Even if that is not what I want as a relationship with any instructor, they shouldnt be treated as a commodity but a person to develop a relationship with, I may be too old school in some aspects)

Hello to All, I have a bizzare question/ dilemma. I wish to learn certain specific aspect of a style of Karate in my area. To cut it short, me and the Sensei (instructor as we are clearly not walking the same path, in many aspects of life) do not have the same understanding or vision of what Karate is and how it is to be treated and practiced. Him being on the theorical side of things and very much into hierarchy. I am into practicality and informalities; not because my "rank" is higher then someone that this person does not have valuable information, experience or tips to bring. I welcome comments questions critics (based in logic and practicality not aestethisicm) from anyone. He is the reverse of that, if you are not of his rank or higher your word is doesn't mean anything and it is preferable to not speak at all. My question or dilemma is this, I want to learn and he may be one of the only one who specialise in this style, that I can have access (I still pay them as well). Should I attend classes in silence, not involve myself with students anymore then necessairy and let it be? Wait until I have a teacher that understands things the way I do (there is one, we just have scheduling conflict)? Go to a different school where I will most likely face the same challenges as most do not practice Karate for its practicality so they learn and teach in a "How" mindset when I focus on the "Why". I dont mind it as much as long as Sensei can understand my path is not the one they may follow and are able to still teach me. I feel this person wants clones and copies of himself, not Karateka. Without lies, might be an ego thing on both sides I am uncertain. I want to learn, he wants to dominate is the feeling I get. Any ideas or options?

I think that is what I meant by sequences. The way it is explained here makes more sense then the way I was trying to explain it. But yes exactly that!