OneKickWonder

With reference to the parent that pushes too hard, for a good while I was (unintentionally) that parent. My son trains in the same class as me. He started being lazy and unmotivated in class. This would wind me up and make me nag him more. One day I realised I was pushing him too hard. I stopped pushing completely. I left it entirely up to him to decide how much to train or even at all (he always had the option to quit, but my attitude was if you go, you train, of you're not going to train effectively, you quit). The improvement was almost immediate. Sure he still has lazy days. But most times now he is focused and committed. All since I stopped nagging him.

Someone who doesn't just accept what they're told as the best all and end all, but rather takes what they've been taught and practices it, including in their own time, and tries to visualise it's use, and tries to understand it's broad range of applications. Someone who uses every training opportunity not to show how cool they are, but instead to figure out what needs more work next.

Agree. That is why it helps to bring a gun. And friends with guns. Can you give an example of a real event where that worked?

I should say, I got on with all the instructors there. There'll all good people and good martial artists. But for me personally, I was getting more out of class with the former instructor than the latter.

I get all of the above. But do we think it's even possible to train from the awful scenario that developed in Paris last night, with a knife wielding terrorist randomly attacking innocent passers by? Most knife defences I've practiced (across several schools in several styles) or seen (across even more schools and styles) seem highly impractical. The stats, i keep hearing, suggest that knife defences are not very effective. But my question really is, is that because we train rubbish knife defence techniques or is it inherently impossible to train effective knife defence?

They go back a little bit further than the victorian era. Researchers reckon some go back to the bronze age, circa 6000 years ago. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35358487

Every government/military/police force in the world adapts their readiness strategy to suit whatever is the perceived threat of the time. Within the world if combat sport, the same is true. We saw kick boxing and BJJ became the core of MMA until everyone did the same, so some folks looked to other styles for that new technique that would catch an opponent off guard. But what about self defence? Is that changing? In France and Britain we've seen more than a few terror attacks featuring random knife attacks. Is it possible to train for that (other than keeping your eyes open and learning to run fast)? In several martial arts styles, knife defences are practiced. But the drills are often so unrealistic. Usually one on one squared up. Scenarios like the classic street robbery knife to the throat, or the psychotic overhead ice pick attack. I know that stats suggest there's little you can do in a knife attack situation. But is that the truth, or is it just that nobody trains effectively for realistic scenarios? This musing is in the wake of yet another tragic incident in France today, with one person killed and several injured in what so far appears to be a fairly random attack.

The wife asked me earlier, if I regret quitting aikido. I genuinely struggled to answer. Here's why. When I first joined, the chief instructor assigned one of his subordinate instructors to take me through the basics. The chap he chose was a good lad. Despite me having all the advantages on paper, I was bigger, stronger, fitter, more agile and younger than him, he could put a technique on me and control me. I thoroughly enjoyed working with him because I knew that what he was teaching would work against someone my size. Now here's the problem. When he put a technique on, it hurt. I mean really hurt. I didn't mind. I'd trained in other styles. I was and am used to a bit of pain. But behind his back,other students would complain about him. Students that within aikido, were higher grade than me. I was a mere white belt in aikido. So one day, without explanation, the chief instructor told me I'd be working with one of the other instructors from now on. A chap that was black belt, but, I don't want to judge, simply could not get any technique to work on me unless I voluntarily yielded. I remember him once very politely holding me in an arm bar trying to force me to the floor, politely asking if there's anything I could do, and I simply stood up straight without effort. So this got me to thinking. Nobody at that club was a bad martial artist in my opinion. And none of the teachers were bad teachers. I don't even think there were bad students. But there were incompatibilities. My former teacher was good for me, but clearly not so good for anyone that wants to be eased gently into the more brutal aspects. My latter teacher was probably excellent for those starting out in their martial arts journey, but not so good for anyone that's used to being thrown violently to the ground. By extension, this got me to thinking, are there bad students and bad teachers, or just incompatibilities? This is kind of a random musing, but if be interested to see what others think.

I don't think they're all like that. Every club I've had involvement with would welcome anyone regardless of experience, just as long as they show common courtesy and a desire to learn. But there was one club I enquired at at they were all keen to get me in for a face to face chat, right up until I told them I had some years experience. Then they made their excuses. They didn't say no, but they did say they'd have to talk to various chiefs and organise an appointment and generally tactfully try to put me off. So I didn't go there. But plenty of others have been very welcoming.

Within our club, we have a few that I consider to be belt chasers. For me though, my belt serves two purposes. 1. It helps to hold my jacket shut. 2. When we get visiting instructors who may not know us all personally, our belts give them some indication of our experience. The guess instructor that wants to demonstrate a takedown for example, might select a student to demonstrate on that is likely to go with the flow rather than panicking, resisting, and falling awkwardly and hurting themselves. To that end, the visiting instructor merely needs to look at the colour of people's belts. If he sees that the belt is white or orange belt, he may move along the line until he says maybe a brown or a black belt. Then he can reasonably expect, without knowing anything else about his chosen helper, that that individual knows how to fall and roll out safely.

I know that there are schools that function as a business. And I have no feelings either way about that. We all have to earn a living somehow. But that said, the concept is alien to me. Over the years I've been involved with several martial arts clubs teaching various styles. In every case the chief instructor has seemed almost embarrassed to take fees from us. Those fees, I once calculated, barely cover the hall hire let alone equipment and instructors costs like actually getting to the venue. But in the case of the commercial end of things, I don't see why invoking fear and then telling blatant lies is necessary or beneficial. At my current club, our one home made poster tells of fun and fitness and discipline and various other things, but no hint at all that you'll get beat up if you don't join us. At its worst, I actually think it's putting people in greater danger. It tells people that they can easily defeat the bad dudes. I wonder how many poor individuals have to get the shock of their lives when they learn the hard way that a few weeks of training doesn't mean you can get that convoluted lock on the bad dude that's twice their size.

Years ago when I trained in kung fu, I had to grade for my white sash. I don't think kung fu traditionally has grades, but of course us western sorts often expect them as progress markers. So we had them. White sash was given after you'd showed some ability to defend yourself in a surprise ambush situation by our instructors who'd concealed themselves in various doorways along a corridor we had to walk down. They'd jump out and mock attack. We were judged on how quickly we were able to react. It was great fun. Not sure how realistic though.

Well as I pointed out in my original post, I used the example of two grown men both in college and no weapons are involved. So for age and gender that's covered, two males who are of the typical age that college students are, late teens to early twenties. I didn't mention anything about race as its not fair to add race into the equation but for sake of discussion lets say they're both white men. When I referenced location, I meant country, and I'm particular legal jurisdiction and local 'attitudes'. This becomes very relevant for race and gender as sadly the concept of equality hasn't reached round everywhere yet.

Flawed?? Nope!! Here's why I believe it... https://www.karateforums.com/proof-is-on-the-floor-vt36016.html https://www.karateforums.com/proof-is-on-the-floor-an-addendum-vt41784.html I don't believe in things as the "best" because it's an assumption of the observer. Your hypothetical here still speaks about him, while he's much elder nowadays, he's still an "expert" through his knowledge and experience. Besides, anyone at any age, and at any knowledge/experience and, if we must consider, rank, can dodder into any dojo and stoop over a zimmer frame, and still be an "expert" by the observers interpretation. An "expert" at anything, including the MA, can trip over who knows what. I had once been accused of not possessing any MA knowledge and experience because during a pool game, I missed a lot of shots. This persons reasoning was that all MA should have a keen hand to eye coordination, and I shouldn't miss that many shots. My argument towards that guy was... "I don't know what you know about the MA, but in all of my years in the MA, I never ever once saw a pool table in our dojo...not ever!!" 53 years later, I'm still poor at playing pool, not good at bowling, not good at horseshoes, not good at darts, not good at basketball, well, there's a lot of things that I'm not good at, well, except the MA. I like this answer

Sensei8, I like your saying, 'proof is on the floor'. But is it not flawed? What if you had the hypothetical best martial artist to have ever lived, but he's grown old and weary and now struggles to even walk never mind anything else. If he doddered into your dojo, stooped over a zimmer frame, would he be an expert?

Let's say you have someone who is fairly low in grade, but understands how there's no such thing as technique, just principles from which techniques can be built on the fly. That person can see a hundred different uses for a basic low block for example, and they can put all those principles together naturally as they move. But they can't seem to learn the lingo, and they struggle to remember the sequences of forms. Conversely, you have someone who can perform any form to competition standard. They can speak all the lingo. They know all the history. They can perform a jump 360 roundhouse to head height. But ask them to improvise or gods forbid, actually fight, and they have nothing. Would either of these two hypothetical extremes qualify as a martial arts expert?

Yep. That's why we have a different interpretation of 'fighting stance' depending on whether we're sparring or practicing self defence. Taking it to the extreme, I'm reminded of my old aikido teacher (he made aikido practical by incorporating his military experience). It was comical to see. A huge tank of a man retreating backwards with his hands up pretending to cry with blind panic, to lull his 'attacker' into a deeper sense of security and superiority, so that when he bounced in and took the (wooden) knife and applied an arm bar, the attacker would be totally taken by surprise.

It depends on your jurisdiction. Some recognize castle doctrine and stand your ground. Other have a greater duty to retreat. That means retreat as far a practical. You do not have to retreat past your child's room where they are sleeping. Shooting vs. MA. It depends on the level of force they initiate and if they submit. Deadly force is deadly force, whether it be with a gun, knife or hands. If the force you respond with is reasonably necessary or not is the ultimate question. This can change based on individual. A 90 year old grandmother will likely have a lower threshold than a young, fit male. It also depends where you are. In the UK, if you shoot someone, you are almost certainly going to jail (unless the armed coppers shoot you first). That's because it would almost certainly be premeditated. That's because our firearms laws require that guns be kept in one locked container and the ammo in another, when not in use. So if you have time to unlock both cases, load the gun, and then shoot someone, you probably had time to phone the police and/or hide or escape. If on the other hand you use martial arts, it could be argued that you were caught off guard, panicked in the confrontation, and reacted instinctively in panic and self defence.

How did he unintentionally do it? Did the man stumble and run into his fist or something?

It depends where you are. Sadly it also depends on the race, age and gender of those involved. Life is not always fair In our club, we're sometimes told that the reason why, by default, we always step backwards from ready stance to fighting stance is to show that we are not attacking. Similar with open hand vs clenched fist. There are pros and cons to both, and it goes far deeper than mere politics, but one of the reasons for open hand is that it looks less aggressive, so witnesses are in theory more likely to corroborate your claim that you acted in self defence.

I think everyone here loves martial arts. It would be odd to be active on a martial arts forum if that wasn't the case. But that said, we must all have some gripes. I had the misfortune of seeing a video on my Facebook feed that I didn't want to see, that reminded me of my biggest pet hate, closely followed by my second biggest pet hate, and my third. Yes. All in one clip. The clip features footage of genuine looking assaults. Then it moves into people practicing martial arts. The message being that we all need martial arts to protect ourselves. So, pet hate number 1. Trying to scare people into taking up martial arts. Martial arts training has so many benefits it would be hard to list them all. Key ones for me would be it's fun, you make a lot of true friends. You get to develop a level of control over your own body that many sadly never experience. But it's not necessary. Not training does not mean you're going to get beaten nearly to death every time you go out. In fact unless anyone can present stats to the contrary, I'd say it makes little difference. Pet hate number 2. Martial arts and self defence being used interchangeably. They are very much not the same thing. Martial art is the art of combat. It is about skill to engage someone in combat with the goal of defeating them and rendering them unable to fight anymore. Self defence on the other hand is the exact opposite. Self defence is about avoiding the fight, or escaping it if you happen to be caught up in it. Pet hate number 3. The massive fat lie. Demonstrating over complicated techniques against a cooperative partner and selling it as effective self defence. The notion that a skinny weakling can, after a few weeks training, intercept a punch from a big strong man, trap his arm, lock him up, and throw him violently to the floor, whereupon he will immediately give in and say he's very sorry and will never do it again.

I will drop Taekwondo and stick to Boxing. I have more natural ability in that. My progress in TKD pretty much stagnated. Progress only stagnates when either, you give up, or you believe you know better than everyone that can offer you guidance. It is of course your decision. Nothing to do with anyone else. But it's something to think about. I know from other posts that you have doubts about your instructor. That's fair enough. But is that a reason to give up taekwondo after you've invested so much time in it? Only you can answer that. From the videos you've posted up, it looks like you're doing OK. Maybe when you get some criticism of it, perhaps it doesn't feel like that, but in my experience, most genuine martial artists only give criticism to help someone further improve. You asked if I bounce of the mitts throwing those side kicks, the answer to that is yes. I have done this for 4 years. I don't have the flexibility to kick properly and use my hip like I'm supposed to. But have you bounced off pads for 4 years? Often we practice kicks more against thin air than against a physical target. There is great value in kicking thin air, but only if it's backed by practice against resistance. Lots of schools overlook the latter too much. If that's the case with your school, then it's understandable that a few times, you'll bounce off. I remember when I first got the hang of spinning back kick. I thought I was awesome. I could fire out those spinning back kicks with speed and precision every time. Awesome. Until the first time the kick shield came out. Guess what happened. Yup. I bounced off. The guy holding the kick shield told me honestly, he felt very little impact. Yet still I'd bounced off. Why? I wasn't throwing my weight into the kick. Many practice sessions later, I'm practically kicking the pad holder over. It's just a matter of practice. Practice and analysis. It wasn't perfect. Why not? What can improve? None of this means that you as a martial artist are having any problems beyond anyone else's. It just means there's always improvement to be made. Don't be put off. And with regard to hip flexibility. I saw the videos you posted. You are more flexible than many. If you're having issues with it, I suspect it will all come down to subtle adjustments. When I was a young man, I could cross my legs behind my head. I used to do it sometimes to show off. Yet I couldn't get a roundhouse kick or side kick much higher than my own waist. It was years and years before I realised I wasn't quite getting my various joints into the right angles when kicking. I worked on this, and within a week I was kicking to about my shoulder height, and within about a month it was head height. That's too short a time for significant changes in flexibility. So it could only be that by making subtle adjustments I'd maximised the available range of motion.

I will drop Taekwondo and stick to Boxing. I have more natural ability in that. My progress in TKD pretty much stagnated. Progress only stagnates when either, you give up, or you believe you know better than everyone that can offer you guidance. It is of course your decision. Nothing to do with anyone else. But it's something to think about. I know from other posts that you have doubts about your instructor. That's fair enough. But is that a reason to give up taekwondo after you've invested so much time in it? Only you can answer that. From the videos you've posted up, it looks like you're doing OK. Maybe when you get some criticism of it, perhaps it doesn't feel like that, but in my experience, most genuine martial artists only give criticism to help someone further improve.

I've heard it said a few times, that when you get your black belt, it shows that regardless of what you achieve outside of martial arts, you are at least an expert in martial arts. Really? This got me to thinking. Someone who spends a lifetime learning the teachings of one master is likely to be deemed an expert in martial arts. But perhaps they are only an expert in one person's methods. Conversely, someone who does 6 months here, 6 months there, and goes to lots of seminars, but never achieves a senior grade in anything, is unlikely to be considered an 'expert'. Certainly if judged according to any one grading criteria at least. So what do we think makes an 'expert'? I don't believe it's grade. I've met some pretty poor quality black belts over the years (more excellent ones, but still some rubbish ones). It can't be the range of styles. I've met many who think they know everything just because they had a few classes here and there and watched a few YouTube videos. This comes from by the way, I was once shown the syllabus way to perform a self defence technique. I know for absolute fact with no doubt whatsoever that the technique shown would be extremely unlikely to work in the street. Not through my martial arts knowledge, but just by having grown up in the wrong part of town.

And... If you walk on one side of the road, chances are you will be OK. If you walk on the other side of the road, you will be OK. But if you walk in the middle of the road, sooner or later you'll be squished like a grape. - Mr Miyagi I've always taken that to mean, if you're going to bother with martial arts or anything in life, do it properly, otherwise those that do do it properly will always beat you.