You read too much into what I'm saying I said "Wado... he never said those exercises were useless, just that they don't teach timing. And no, none of those exercises that you listed teach any sort of timing." I never said karate has no timing or old senseis had no timing... In fact I'm sure karateka of old did drills to improve their timing. So maybe they have timing, maybe they don't, but it sure isn't because of kata.