cardinal95

I was going to recommend the same thing. I've been blessed with the instructors that I have in that I could tell them I wanted to expand outside the dojo to broaden my learning, and they didn't have a problem with it. Since its the same style though, I could see how this is a concern. That's why I would definitely try a few classes at the other school first to prevent any "awkward" conversations if its not necessary.

He does often have those "Mr. Miyagi" moments.

You've given a perfect example of the downside of having rank at all, and assistant instructors. I have to say, you state that you hate politics, but with your questioning and back room discussions about another student you are likely creating an atmosphere of political discontent. In life we are always compared to those around us. Suck it up and worry about your own development before your dojo falls apart in a quagmire of jealousy and bad feelings. Your teacher either knows what he's doing or he doesn't. If he does stay, if not go. Fact is, you won't know for sure until you and this guy are years down the line, so you either deal and enjoy your training or go with not a word said (if you care about the School I mean). But the kind of griping you are doing will kill your school if unchecked. DavidB, definitely a different perspective which is appreciated and noted. I have trained with this dojo (and only this dojo) for two decades, I have considered branching out since these are fairly new developments I am trying to sort out.

Jaypo, you very clearly just described my situation to a tee! I couldn't agree more with your analysis of this situation! So well put.

Suffering may be too strong of a word, but I think everyone's training has been impacted. There is too much emphasis on ego and positive reinforcement than on the actual training in my opinion, which is resulting in other student's frustration, lack of confidence for some, over confidence for others. Its impacted the dynamics of the dojo which in turn is impacting the learning environment for others (including myself). Does that make sense?

Its tough because I am one of the assistant instructors as well, so as much as I'd LOVE to just focus on me the students are also my concern to a certain extent. I have actually mentioned the control thing to Sensei before, and he agreed he needs to work on control, and he even said that is why this student is at the rank he is at (meaning mid-rank and not advanced). I took a pretty nasty blow to the shin from him two days before a tournament, I was a bit nervous about competing after that since the pain was still there but I just got on with it. Which is why I believe (as a teacher) that focusing on basics and kata and certain kumite drills should be practiced with him more, to help him develop more control, subsequently bringing him up in rank based on those requirements as well (2 birds one stone). Its definitely been revealed this past week that this is a point of contention amongst the assistant instructors, I don't think he is ready, one woman hesitantly thinks he could be ready but not because of the sheet requirements and the other woman thinks he is 100% ready and has been "the most prepared" and ready for a awhile now. At the end of the day its all up to Sensei in the end so its a moot point. My biggest thing is I think he can be better then where he is at right now. He'd be moving from blue to green (the exact half way mark for kyu) so it is an important step for a karateka, one that shouldn't be taken lightly (in my opinion).

Its tough because I am one of the assistant instructors as well, so as much as I'd LOVE to just focus on me the students are also my concern to a certain extent. I have actually mentioned the control thing to Sensei before, and he agreed he needs to work on control, and he even said that is why this student is at the rank he is at (meaning mid-rank and not advanced). I took a pretty nasty blow to the shin from him two days before a tournament, I was a bit nervous about competing after that since the pain was still there but I just got on with it. Which is why I believe (as a teacher) that focusing on basics and kata and certain kumite drills should be practiced with him more, to help him develop more control, subsequently bringing him up in rank based on those requirements as well (2 birds one stone). Its definitely been revealed this past week that this is a point of contention amongst the assistant instructors, I don't think he is ready, one woman hesitantly thinks he could be ready but not because of the sheet requirements and the other woman thinks he is 100% ready and has been "the most prepared" and ready for a awhile now. At the end of the day its all up to Sensei in the end so its a moot point. My biggest thing is I think he can be better then where he is at right now. He'd be moving from blue to green (the exact half way mark for kyu) so it is an important step for a karateka, one that shouldn't be taken lightly (in my opinion).

Its tough because I hate to question him. I was brought up that "Sensei knows best." I also just came back after a lengthy hiatus and told him I really wanted to train to promote (for various reasons) to my next kyu. He is promoting me and answering all my questions, getting me back up to speed, etc. when I know there are others that think I shouldn't promote because I took so much time off. But he assured me that my foundation is still better than those who trained consistently while I was away (and I think he knows I'm training and studying every day). I also like to train everything, so that I am well-rounded. Whether its kumite, basics, kata, sparring etc, which I think he likes. He also does not stroke this other student's ego like the other assistant instructors. The assistant instructors have this kid on a very high pedestal while Sensei acknowledges lack of control/technique etc. and targets where there is room to improve. I guess I'm hesitant to talk to him about this specifically because he knows my situation, my goals etc and is catering the training so that I reach my goals. Maybe he is doing this with the other student as well (without my knowledge), but from the outside perspective it just doesn't seem that way. I hate these kind of politics in a dojo, its so off-putting and it takes focus of what is important...its just very hard to focus on yourself and what you are doing when there seems to be some sort of measurement/comparison with everyone else. I simply don't remember it being this way, I remember training as hard as possible to exceed my personal best, and then rank would come.

By what measures is he the best fighter? Is it mainly because of innate physical ability? Is he the best because he can always score points in a match? I've known of plenty of young fighters who can do a few things really well, which works until someone figures out how to counter/avoid, then their sparring performance goes downhill fast. I would go more with innate physical ability. Best fighter as in he is young and strong while the rest of us ladies are over 30 with existing injuries (making us a bit more hesitant to fight like we used to). He is fitter than the rest of us which lets him go harder and longer. He has only participated in a couple tournaments. He performed very well in one and mediocre in another. When I spar him I feel like I am sparring a boxer more than a karateka. He hits hard and fast and he has a great ability to get in and out fast. Accuracy and control are definitely something he could improve on.

You are correct, I feel that I am at a bit of a crossroads with this. I probably should add a little more context as well. Though this student is the best fighter in the dojo (of 5 people), his control is terrible and his technique is mediocre. He has about 3 moves he relies on (which is sometimes all it takes) but my issue is where the focus is. We have never been a sparring-centric dojo the focus has always been on molding a well-rounded martial artist. My issue, for this particular student, is he focuses mainly on fighting and doesn't put the same amount of energy into the other requirements. Though he is strong and fearless (which is commendable) I think he suffers a bit from the "big fish in a small pond" syndrome. With that said, I think he has amazing potential to be an unbelievable martial artist and that because he isn't being held to a high standard, for things like rank, and because he is being compared to many of us (who are much older with old injuries, etc.) he is being robbed in way. Instead of stroking his ego we should be refining and polishing him, if that makes sense. Which is why I think its important to focus on the individual. In short, I don't think he is working (or being taught) to his potential.

Thanks for the insight Wastelander! I can definitely appreciated the adjustment for standards when encountering certain learning or physical disabilities. But the competing thing still has me weary...this may just be because it was emphasized that our school never promotes based on tournaments/fighting records, though this may be changing apparently. To re-direct for a moment, it does seem as if you are discussing measuring the student against them-self/individual ability not necessarily the ability of others, am I understanding your opinion correctly?

I found myself pondering the meaning of rank this past week and was hoping to obtain some further insight from all of you brilliant karateka. There a few of us preparing for promotions in about a month and I heard something from one of my fellow assistant instructors that I had not heard before. We were discussing another student whom we both did not feel is ready to promote due to lack of knowledge/practice as outlined on that kyu's rank sheet. When this instructor told our Sensei that she did not think this student was ready, he replied "he's ready." The student is the best fighter in the class (there are only a handful of us) and is mid-ranked. From my perspective, the student's kata's and basics and dojo etiquette are sloppy despite that his conditioning and fighting are above par for his rank. This assistant instructor explained to me, well people get promoted for lots of reasons other than what is on the sheet. This is not sitting well with me. My knee-jerk reaction is either you know (and can execute) whats on the sheet and execute to the best of your ability or your don't. I am also weary of promoting students because they are good fighters, I don't believe that fighting and rank should have a positive correlation (it never did before in my dojo). In talking to Sensei in the past, and in picking his brain, it appears that in his mind rank is indicating the varying abilities of all the students in relation to eachother, almost like a hierarchy. From my past training, I thought rank measured an individuals ability against them-self as well as their knowledge. I am finding myself feeling uneasy with this new (to me new) system of ranking. Any thoughts?

I definitely spoke with my current Sensei before branching out. He knows what I am trying to achieve (to diversify, increase my balance and flexibility, etc). If it were up to me I'd train with him everyday but that pesky thing called life gets in the way. He is very supportive, his main concern is that its tough to find quality instructors. He has 32 years of martial arts experience and has trained in many different styles under many instructors so I take this concern very seriously. In fact, it almost deterred me completely. But I am still craving more. I was also very forthcoming with my potential Kung Fu instructor in terms of what I am looking for. I of course will be respectful to both instructors (and fellow students). I've always been trained that "karate begins and ends with respect." Its a creed that I apply to all aspects of my life, especially when it comes to training with others. I think my nerves have babbling at this point

Thanks so much for the insight! So great to hear an "in the field" experience first hand. Traditionally my style is very linear and hard, I was hoping to enhance my knowledge expanding to a more circular softer style. I am a bit nervous about inadvertently bringing one style's characteristics to the other, but I just really want to open my mind and body to something new. I am pretty nervous but excited all at the same time. I also feel an odd loyalty complex with branching out. In my current dojo's school creed we often repeat that we are to be "loyal to my school and the art it teaches." I received a couple of raised eyebrows when I told some of my fellow karateka that I was going to try Kung Fu at a different school. Subsequently I found myself explaining that my current dojo is of course where my loyalty lies and that this is more of an "add on" to enhance what I've learned already. I may just be overly self-conscious about the whole thing.

Thanks so much for the insight all!

The only martial art style I have ever known is Okinawan Shorei-Ryu Karate. However, I am going to try out a Kung Fu class this coming weekend. I've never branched out to different styles before, so is there any advice in transitioning from Karate to Kung Fu?

I would say the "core" katas at our Shorei-Ryu dojo are the Taikyoku ichi, ni and san (gedan barai, chudan uke, and jodan uke). These three katas are required in order to promote from white belt to yellow belt (along with other requirements). Without these katas the foundation of our style is not really obtained, and therefore all subsequent katas for further ranking are harder to really nail down. In my research of the history of our style, these three katas also appear to be the most consistent and the most "unctouched." Hope that helps.

Troy Price (Shihan) has a speciality in Kyusho, he is also a wonderful teacher. Here is his website: http://www.shuritebujutsu.com/Troy_J.html

So much insight, thanks everyone!

These are all awesome (and interesting) points which leads me to some thoughts. Some of us in the adult class are a bit older, and have old sports injuries (myself included) which makes some of the strength training a bit difficult. Why I returned to Karate, as opposed to joining a basketball or soccer league, is because you can truly do it for a lifetime if done properly. A few of my fellow karateka have really bad knees and I have a bad back and ankle so the pushups and sit ups are incredibly tricky and sometimes painful for some of us. Though I could do them just fine at age 16, ages 30, 40 and 50 are quite different. In short, I appreciate the interpretation that really the karate skills are being tested, not the strength/athleticism. Though, I am obviously not going to change our requirements, as its not my place, this is definitely a point that I think needs to be mulled over. I know the other girls I am promoting with in September are very hesitant to do so because of the physical demands required to promote and their existing aches and pains, which I can totally relate to. Yet, these requirements were put in place a very long time ago now, and sports/sports medicine has come a long way indicating that we should not be doing certain things we've done for a lifetime (e.g. where exactly the knee falls in a kiba dachi in relation to foot position can destroy your joints). You've all give me a lot to think about here.

I am curious does anyone require an allotted amount of time in plank as part of their strength requirements? I was thinking this may be a nice alternative to pushups/situps and actually way better for you (less harsh on the neck and back etc).

Thanks for the recommendation Greg! I've already found so many insightful and intelligent karateka on here, its been awesome! I can't believe I didn't join sooner. PS Sensei Ed is talking about us making a trip down there maybe next year, we'll keep you posted on the details.

I completely agree Kensei, appending a book is one thing but altering impacts the work's authenticity...drives me nuts!

Same with our dojo its the "bible," which is why I would think it would be useful to have. Though, my Sensei said he'd copy sections, I don't want to bug him every time I am doing research on anything (which is frequent these days). Its so interesting how different schools handle the "don't make any changes to the original" situation. Thats nuts that your old instructor would actually go edit the Pinnacle. Thats pretty die-hard. Reaching out to someone who knows Hanshi Trias is a great idea, I didn't think of that. I will definitely mull that option over.

Thanks a million PS1 for reaching out to your friend! Yeah, thats way too much for any book (said the historian). The book is used as the "authority" on pretty much all questions in our dojo, so though I would find it super useful for what I am doing there, I don't know if its "$1500" worth of useful when I can just borrow my Sensei's when it comes down to it.