Spartacus Maximus

Perhaps it depends on when and whom a karateka learned. When I trained in Okinawa a few years ago only the ball of the foot was taught and that was also true for the other shorin ryu dojos. I restarted shorin ryu and I am now with a sensei that swears by the toe kick. He specifically explained that ball of the foot kicks were an change made to adapt karate for competition and teaching younger children. In his youth, teachers like Chibana, Nagamine would teach only the toe version. I was also told that the toes are the correct and most effective weapons. I believe there is a karate saying referring to the toes becoming like spears. Now I know what they meant. It really does feel like being stabbed

Thank you for your input. I'm curious to know about your shorin ryu teacher because toe kicks are not as commonly taught/practised in shorin ryu as they once were. Is your shorin ryu teacher okinawan or did he have a teacher who was? It seems it is only the old timers who still do it. Uechi-ryu is now the only style in Okinawa that still actively use toe kicks. Again the targets are exactly as you said: soft and preferably lower body

My advice is to keep as humble an attitude as possible and do anything you can to avoid being perceived as cocky. Focus on your sensei's teachings and try hard to practise and apply them. You may not be new to karate but you are learning a new way. Remember what it was like when you were an absolute novice in martial arts an approach everything with that attitude. You will progress faster by putting aside previous experience. Take advice and accept help from your seniors in that style even if you were a higher grade in your other style. Nobody will resent you for it. Also remind yourself that training and progress are a personal journey. It is futile to look at where others are. All that matters is the struggle against yourself. I can tell you this because I have had to restart karate after gaining my third dan. Lastly discuss your concerns about your situation with your sensei in private and ask him what he thinks. That should get you the best solution.

It seems to me that it is always the non mainstream Christians that see any conflict between the religious teachings they follow and martial arts. The opposition usually comes from those who know next to nothing about them I come from a culture that for most of its history was fiercely Christian. The Catholic Church controlled society with an iron fist. Even now the overwhelming majority identifies to that religion. Despite this martial arts are still very popular. The USA is mostly Christian as well and martial arts a probably more popular there than where many originated.

Teaching ability only becomes important when a person is interested in doing it. There are always very excellent martial artist who for various reasons do not teach. My opinion is based on the example of my sensei and others like him who are still able to demonstrate their skills well into their sixties, seventies and onwards. Most admirable is the fact that through sustained training efforts they have found ways to compensate for the natural physical decreases. That to me is the mark of mastery. Some of these martial artists even managed to become able to do things they were unable to accomplish in their younger days.

Kicking with the toes as seen in the book you have is something that is impossible to do without injuring yourself unles your hold your toes correctly and only if you have conditioned them. If you have ever bumped your big toe on something accidentally that is a sample of the pain you will feel. I have just started training my toes and it is easy to get carried away and overdo it . It does take quite a while before being able to put any kind of power into. Kanken Toyama must have had experience with this type of kick so I believe that you may have another clue that it may have been originally part of early TKD. Very interesting indeed.

I have a fellow student with whom I discussed teaching young children. His idea for teaching his 4 year old son is to do it this way: kids age (4) times 2 min. So that means 8 minutes of 2 or 3 very basic techniques until the movements are remembered. Keep going at this pace as often as possible until the kid is about 10. Then start him on basic kata but devise them in two of he parts until the entire kata is remembered. At this point a half hour to forty minutes is plenty and minimum three times a week. Make practise into a challenging game with rewards for each improvement you notice even very small ones. It seems to work because that kid has some of the best punches and kicks I have ever seen a 4 year old do.

Never heard of anyone in pro fighting using toe kicks. I would appreciate a link to the Lyoto Machida fights you are referring to. As far as I have seen shotokan does not teach or train the toe kicks. The founder of shotokan trained and taught at a time when this technique was a staple of karate in his native Okinawa. Now wether or not he taught it or left it out when he started training his first generation students in Tokyo, that is a mystery to me. I briefly trained and studied shotokan in Japan and never saw anyone do it. As far as I know only okinawans do it, uechi ryu and the old timers of shorin ryu like my sensei. Even there the younger generation of karateka barely heard of its existence

When training with a partner the goal is never to go all out but to help each other figure what works and why. You help a less experienced partner by showing that a strong kick will get through. But do it with control just enough to get through. I was on the receiving end of my sensei's front toe kick while we were doing low blocks. His kick was controlled but it got through because I did it wrong and at the incorrect angle. The result was a sound I never heard before. Like a muffled thud and low cracking. Not broken but quite close and a deep bruise the size of a tennis ball that lasted nearly a month. That a mark above my hips where his toe hit me.

First of all shaolin monks are one of the few exceptions. Just like children who have above average talents or who are born into martial arts family. Ordinary kids and youth do not have what it takes to endure such strict training regimen. Most societies today make it impossible for a young child to be spending nearly every waking hour training and studying martial arts. The child monks can do what they do because it is nearly ALL they ever do. Have you ever tried to get a 5 year old to concentrate and practise ANYTHING for longer than a half hour? Without fussing, complaining or crying?! Good luck. Multiply that by a hundred if you are dealing with a group. I also seriously doubt you could keep it up every single day for 6 to 8 hours. If everyone's father was Bruce Lee and trained them from they day they could walk, then every kid would be a phenomenon by the time they reached 10

The first reason I started was ethnic background bullying. I wanted to defend myself but mostly could not stand seeing my younger siblings and kids of my people get abused. I had a strong urge to protect them. Secondly would be an obsession with martial arts stories and movies. I never tired of watching anything that had martial arts in it. Name it and I probably saw it more times than I can count. The third reasons was fate because except for a few dojos nearly all dojos in my medium sized town was Okinwan shorin ryu. I continued because I wanted to always know more and I looked up to my seniors and sensei. They could all do things that seemed amazing.

To me a stack of black belts would not be worth a speck of dirt unless the person can effectively demonstrate the skills and practises them all on a regular basis. Daily would be preferable. That is already extremely difficult to do with one blackbelt rank in one art. Nevermind 3 in different arts.

This thread seemed like an interesting idea to think about. Personally I am very and I mean very old fashioned. Just like many in the age when karate was unknown outside Okinawa, I believe that martial arts skills should be kept away from the public. For much the same reasons as karateka in old Okinawa I keep my knowledge of martial arts secret. I never ever practise outside my home indoors or my dojo unless I am sure not to been seen. I go as far as denying that I have any knowledge or interests in martial arts. Only my sensei, my fellow semi-private students and members of my close family know I do karate. I have asked them never to speak about it. Nobody at work or otherwise knows. The reason is I would much rather not deal with people who are ignorant and misinformed. I also wish to avoid being badgered by hecklers or challenged by fools with something to prove. Only fellow karateka can tell I do it without me saying so because of certain clues. Even if such people ask me I will not go into details until I can see what kind of character they have. The last reason is probably the most important. Being known as a karateka makes people put you in two categories: a somewhat masochist thug or a boring weirdo obsessed with something that people don't care about unless it's in some movie.

I suggest that you do your kicks the correct way so that you don't end up with a bad habit. Just adjust the power to your training partner. If you are with a lower rank or novice try to make it just so they realize that your kick will go through. That usually means they are blocking incorrectly and you should try to help them by thinking how and what needs to changed. Weak blocks hurt just as bad as incorrect ones.

The second point after what you have bolded is the main point. With a shift towards contests and winning, the sport version of karate has sacrificed mechanically sound effective techniques for speed. A technique can only have power if it is structurally and mechanically correct. Punching is a good example. From watching sport karate it is obvious that they never close their hands fully or at all. They do this to be faster. It works but they lose most of their power like that. They also very often over extend when they punch. Stances are also very unstable as they do not stay rooted to strike but bounce around on the balls of their feet. If they get hit while in mid-bounce they lose their balance. What they do is certainly effective in a sporting environment. What is most detrimental to karate is when this becomes the standard taught without teachers and students understanding that it is the sports version. Worse still is when neither knows that it is sport. As for your question, I have seen several WKF high level karateka who could hit with power but were quickly defeated by traditionally trained karateka who could take advantage of the flaws I stated above.

Very interesting post about ITF TKD. I didn't know this kind of kick existed in TKD. I do however have my suspicion as to where TKD inherited it from because TKD has roots in Funakoshi's karate. The founder of TKD learned from him if I am not mistaken. Toe kicks were certainly the norm in karate at that time. The targets you mentioned are the same as recommended in okinawan karate. The highest we ever aim for when an adversary is standing is the solar plexus. Lower targets are more commonly used unless a preceding strike has made the higher ones reachable. Besides the front and roundhouse other kicks use the heel for impact. Are toe kicks taught In ITF TKD generally or is it just a few schools? What kind of hardening exercises do you practise? I put this in karate because that is where learn toe kicks but I remember that they originate in Chinese martial arts. Anyone have a clue as to which Chinese style have this technique?

When I referred to speed I meant hand and foot speed as seen in many sport karate matches. Speed with power is good but in theses matches often the fastest person scores and wins with speed alone. There is almost no power at all behing the strikes. It becomes a contest of speed instead of proper technique. Karate is not about being the baddest or about winning. The limits that many claim karate has come from a shallow understanding. People think they see limits and feel the need to complete these by seeking what they think is lacking outside. The root of that is two reasons. The first is that karate has drifted a long way from its original okinawan form and even in Okinawa some techniques and applications have been left out or forgotten in transmission due to the strong influence and pressure shift towards competition. The second reason is the majority of karateka do not know where to look or were never taught where to find what the think is lacking. It is all in the kata. Yes karate has throws and yes there are joint locks. No need to borrow them from elsewhere. Being the baddest on the block or dominating adversaries are attitudes for the ring where they belong. Unfortunately it is all too common in karate dojos. Even in so called traditional ones supposedly focussed on defense. The essence of traditional karate is at risk of being lost if the sport-focus is emphasized. Adding it to the Olympics will further encourage this shift. That is why I oppose the idea.

I haven't been training with my present sensei for more than a year but one thing he often repeats is: Each move is defense as much as counter attack at the same time. The body follows the mind, so always train hard and with intent. Put everything you have in each move. Mind body and spirit! And finally: Hard training makes beer and sake taste so much better!

Thank you. I browse many martial arts forums and this seemed like one of the most serious ones. Most others are filled with petty arguments and thuggish keyboard bravado and trolls.

Sometimes I wish I had no prior training at all. I suspect those people are better off since they don't have all the bad habits to unlearn and therefore less confused by previous or excess baggage in their minds. Having been in karate since my early teens I am now remembering what it is like to be a complete novice. With all the parts and information I am missing I actually became one. Progress seems so slow that if my sensei didn't tell me I can't tell if I'm getting anywhere. I see many on here have two or more grades in different styles. If you were in my situation would you mention a previous grade if you started teaching. For example: Shorin ryu (association X) 3rd Dan Shorin ryu (association Y) whatever grade If I teach I don't think it would be right to mention a different grade than what my sensei awards me even if the style is the same. I would rather not count it since I restarted anyway.

Developing bad habits is surely a possibility but the way to avoid it is to make sure through practise before attempting variations. If you have learned a kata correctly and are able to perform it inside out then there are less risks. My preference is doing it with eyes closed and combining that with the loop exercise I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Developing bad habits is surely a possibility but the way to avoid it is to make sure through practise before attempting variations. If you have learned a kata correctly and are able to perform it inside out then there are less risks. My preference is doing it with eyes closed and combining that with the loop exercise I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Most martial arts have some sort of philosophy about how a person should use their skills. I like to call it nobility of mind and character. The basic idea shared by nearly all martial arts is these: 1.Training is a personal journey. 2. Increased skills mean increased responsibility and judgment in the justifiable use of these. 3. Humble heart always seeking improvement with constant effort. 4. Avoid using martial skills for trivial issues 5. Defense and survival are the primary goals in confrontations. Lastly an old saying that sums up my thought on this: Make savage the body, civilize the mind and make the heart shine. I believe the ideal of the noble minded martial artist is universal. It is found In all martial Arts from Asia to Europe to America. Even boxing was called the gentleman's sport/art. Without moral guidance it is but violence and thuggery

Hello forum netizens. I am Spartacus and have joined after reading for a while. I practise and have always been involved in Okinawan Shorin ryu karate. I am a former 3rd Dan and a new 3rd kyu in this style (see my thread about starting over if this is confusing)

Karate in the Olympics would spell the final degradation and it's death as soon as the focus changes to competition. Effective techniques would be abandoned for speed and scoring points. I hope that it never ever becomes Olympic. The only way to preserve true karate as an effective defense systems is to clearly separate the sport/competition version from the martial (for lack of a better word) karate. I do not thumb my nose a sport karate. Neither does my sensei but it can sometimes be hard to tell what is made for sport and what is for defense. It isn't always as obvious as a kick to the groin or eye poke.