Spartacus Maximus

Would any or some types of action be more appropriate considering the agro person has not initiated any physical contact, though close enough to smell his breath. Obviously the threat is there, but some actions might be legally/ethically better.. Assuming that escape is impossible without dealing with the threatening person. Is a strike more justifiable than a throw, a lock or a kick?

@Montana to answer some questions about the initial situation and antagonist.. The agressive/threatening person and the defender are perfect strangers. The agro person is enraged and initiated the situation by closing, while shouting threats, insults and with obviously threatening gestures. He is definitely closer than anyone would let a stranger get, especially an obviously violent one. There is no significant size/weight difference. He shows no signs of being intoxicated.

To put it in a simplified way, forms/kata that are considered beginner level in a system are the ones that introduce for the first time the most basic and essential skills and principles. The techniques and core elements in them are usually developed and expanded upon in all subsequent ones taught. Most of the time these forms are purposefully short, but the length or number of steps isn’t always an indicator or whether a kata is XYZ level. Some short kata are deceptively complex. Another trait the lower level kata share is that they are often the oldest or among the oldest in the system.

Here are some more variables: it is outside not too long after dark, not stupid o’clock. The area isn’t considered risky or problematic and the area is urban although not in a large city. Both parties are alone. The aggro guy has managed to get within grabbing/hitting distance. He hasn’t touched the defender yet, but is verbally and physically threatening. This is something often overlooked or taken for granted, especially for people who have never had to physically defend themselves.

It might be necessary to have a specific sub-forum to discuss self-defense topics…But since this topic doesn’t seem to fit anywhere else, General is probably where it must go. At what point would one be justified in using force against a physically and verbally threatening, aggressive person? using force=any action requiring physical contact: strike, throw, lock etc.. To narrow the discussion down a bit, consider it in this context: The aggressor is physically threatening. He has already come into your personal space. He hasn’t touched you, yet he is in your face aggressively pointing/poking his finger. Lastly, this hypothetical is in a weapon-restricted context. Blades and firearms are highly regulated and illegal to carry without legitimate reason. The aggressor might be armed, but you are far more likely to encounter a pointy/cutting object. In this situation, at what point would you be legally(where you live) justified in using physical force(any physical contact)? Are any responses more appropriate than others? Perhaps a joint-lock is a better option than a throw or a strike, for example.. thanks for reading, looking forward to reading everyone’s input

The time spent doing things that are unrelated and not specific to martial arts varies wildly from one instructor/dojo to another. It also depends on how much time there is for one session. Currently the sessions are 2 1/2hours to 3hrs on 4 evenings per week. Quite common for a dojo in Okinawa/Japan, but this is much longer than the average dojo elsewhere apparently. Moat of that time is spent doing karate things. Only about 20-30min is used for general training involving traditional weights and the usual body weight exercises(push-ups, etc…). Correct technique and how to do these is explicitly taught, but it is something emphasized as “out of dojo training”. It is expected that everyone practices this and kihon as much as possible, like “homework”

It takes a certain kind of dedication, commitment and perhaps obsession to maintain serious investment and interest in an activity that is not essential to a comfortable, happy living. Life always seems to find a way to frustrate most endeavours and priorities can change very quickly. It is all the more admirable when one can manage it because of the incredible self-discipline it takes to find and keep the balance between training martial arts(or whatever else) and everything essential to living comfortably such as a home, an income, good food and a stable safe place to live. With very few exceptions, most people have trouble with at least one of these things at some point during their lives.

@sensei8 Is the posture/stance explicitly taught as part of kata like the Uechiryu “woah, chill dude” one seen in so many of their kata? Or is it something more of a kumite/application thing taught separately? It is interesting that this does not seem to be the case with the other heavily Shuri-te influenced ryuha, mine included

@sensei8Does yours have the hands out in the same way as in Uechiryu? What about it is similar and what is different? The hypothesis of the OP is that the posture might have been something common to Okinawan martial arts, perhaps originating in the Chinese martial arts from the time long before the styles known as karate were named and “seperated” into the ryuha known post-WW2. Probably going as far back as Matsumura or earlier. It is interesting and maybe telling that the stance doesn’t seem to be known/used outside of Uechiryu, yet you are the second person from a Shorin/shurite style to say it exists. Having trained only in kobayashi shorin ryu(2 different lineages), this posture never was taught, demonstrated or practiced in any dojo.

It would be immensely helpful to illustrate if pictures could be found to compare what you describe from Matsumura seito with what is familiar from uechi ryu. In the M.S posture are the open hands held in exactly the same way or are there minor differences between that and what is seen in uechi ryu?

The open handed hands in front starting or ready position used in Okinawa uechi ryu karate makes a lot of sense for practical defensive use. Does anyone have an idea of where or how it came to be? Perhaps it is another feature of this style’s Chinese roots. None of the other Okinawan or Japanese martial arts have anything similar. Are there other martial arts in the world with something similar?

There was one Okinawan teacher who got rid of yakuza types who attempted to intimidate him thinking he was an easily scared old man. They would not so subtly remind everyone that the building where the dojo was and many other parts of the neighborhood was their turf, and therefore owed them something. They often showed up acting arrogant, threatening and belligerent demanding recognition and « respect ». Instead of cowering in fear, the 9th dan 70 something sensei invited the yakuza in and showed them his personal makiwara, which was basically a piece of iron/steel sheet. After striking it a few dozen times with his hands and then with his toes(similar to sokusen kick in uechiryu), he asked if any of the yakuza characters wanted to have a go. One tried to look tough not to loose face, but visibly winced and very obviously could not continue beyond a couple of halfhearted punches. The sensei asked if anyone else wanted to try, but they all looked at each other, gave a sheepish bow and left. They never bothered him afterwards, even ignoring him if they saw him.

without going into details(some of you out there may already have an idea why), articulating a specific word/sound as a kiai makes it less effective because it is no longer the burst of physical effort/exertion it should be. A long, drawn out shout also would be ineffective because it involves exhaling for longer than normal. is just a really simple concept that seems to have been lost in translation when East Asian martial arts spread out of their native territory. For some reason, like many things uninitiated Westerners seem to have construed it into some sort of mysterious esoteric, cultish thing. This all seems very strange and quite bizarre to anyone with the least bit of familiarity with how a human body works.

Chuck Norris used to be the face of Century MartyArts catalogue in the late 80´s and the 90´s. That catalogue was quite popular in many schools and they would hand it out to the students. As a 90´s student/fan, his movie career already passed, and was only discovered much later; after the television series he was known for later.

That’s awesome. Like so many martial arts fans, it’s inspiring to see an icon such as Chuck Norris still alive and well at an advanced age, even more so if the man in question is still training and maintains a high level of skill. Many martial artists can only hope and dream to reach that age and still be strong.