delta1

Every art is a begginer art, and Hapkido is a good one. But if you aren't comfortable with it, there should be several schools in your area. All should help you get in shape, though some better than others. What you want out of the martial arts will determine what style and school you get involved with. None of the ones worth while are easy to learn, but there are several that are good for self defense. Hapkido is one. I do American Kenpo, and it is an extremely effective, self defense oriented art. Jui Jitsu is excellent, as is Mui Thai, and the Philipino Martial Arts. There are a lot of others, so check out what is available in your area. I'd stay away from the quick, easy, deadly secret arts (which happen to be available to any one for a price). The Krav Maga I've seen is garbage- it will get you hurt or killed. SCARS is quickly learned, but very limmited. There are some quickly learned reality based arts, but generally they aren't as effective as a good ongoing plan of instruction. If you need something quick, try something like RMCAT (sorry, I don't have their link, but a search should find them easily). They are expensive, and you'll have to spend a week in Colorado, but I hear they are the best. You can then build on that base and improve your skills with a solid martial arts school. Good luck!

My style practices techniques to defend against takedowns, and we do a lot of stand up grappling. You're sure of that? It is becomeing more and more common for stand up schools to include a ground game. I train with grapplers whenever I get the chance. Sure there is. It was an inflamitory question, that's why you put that comment in there. But that's ok. My smart a** answer: And if it were for real, you'll have to take weapons into account also. There's allways a trump! Train it all, or loose it all! Now, if you are trying to make the point that it is a good idea to have some ground fighting skills, I would agree. Probably most people here would, but I'll let them speak for themselves. And those who train for reasons other than self defense deserve no disrespect if they choose not to grapple. So, how would a J-J fighter handle multiple opponents? He'd probably stay on his feet, if possible.

A ballanced diet is important. But with arthritus you may need to make further adjustments. No corn, no potatoes, nothing from the nightshade family. You may have to regulate butter and meats a little. It really sucks! When I looked at my diet plan and my wife asked what it said, I replied "It says I'm going to die a cripple!":uhoh:

Ballane to me implies a lot of things, and it is essential to every aspect of the martial arts (in my ever so humble opinion). First off, training must be ballanced with in your lifestyle. Family, work, and other social functions have their due, but should not be allowed to shut out training. Neither should training short these areas. Ballanced training also means working on all skills, especially the ones that I'd rather not. You know, the ones that you never seem to quite get right- I know you've got 'em too! Another aspect of ballance is opposite but complimentary moves. Hard and soft, distance and close, stand up and grappling, hands and feet. Ballance means learning the moves and techniques technically correct, then learning to apply them to a resisting opponent and to use them instinctively. It means being able to do a technically perfect strike, and also being able to adjust it in the heat and confusion of combat. Just a few of my thoughts on the subject. Sure wish to heck I could do all that!

Even on the street you adjust your level of response to the level of percieved threat. Sparing with contact is about learning to apply your skills against a resisting opponent who is trying to hurt you, but not seriously. It's about learning to take a hit and keep comeing. It's about learning that just because you got an arm in front of it doesn't necessarily mean it was blocked. It's learning to fight at a higher level of intensity and intent. It's about all that, and a whole lot more. But it is not about seriously hurting or injuring someone.

Good article, and some good points. But not the whole story. I guess I'd have to harp once again on the theme of ballance. Competition is an excellent training method. Even if you are just sparing with different stylists and rules and environments you aren't used to, you need to step out of your comfort zone and put it on the line. I agree with the author there. Some moves or techniques though will have to be 'pulled'. Even Judo doesn't do full joint breaks in training, but they know how to do them. And we obviously don't do even light contact when executing a finger thrust to the eyes unles our partner is wearing a shield/goggles. No elbow smashes to an exposed spine, even if he's wearing protection. But we know. The difference is intent, and many schools train for that in many ways. In the ring, you intend to win but not to kill or injure. In light sparing you intend to train speed, accuracy, form, etc. against an unpredictable opponent. In 'full'(?) contact sparing you practice functioning in the chaos and 'ugly' of a real fight, but still without the intent of serious harm. Only in the real deal do you have this intent, or at least you'd better. But even then we adjust the level of response to the level of percieved threat. You adjust your intent to the situation. My point is that we need a ballanced training regimen. This 'my way vs. yours' is not the way. I think the sport of boxing has some glareing weaknesse as a martial art. But I'd never underestimate a boxer, and in fact would sooner fight most martial artists as a good boxer. He's used to taking and giving with intent, and that makes him dangerous. Ballance him out with some kicking skills and maybe a little grappling, I'd about as soon go one on one with a buzz saw!

Can you say 'sandbaged,? Ya gotta love it! Try faking the kick, then sweeping him or traping the raised knee. Or fake the lower and hammer him with a high kick (one of the TKD guys I spar with does this to me every once in a while- sometimes it works, sometimes he ends on his butt- might be worth trying). Another thing you might do is bring the kick up at 45' so it won't meet his check at a right angle. It would also be easier to redirect this a little higher to go over his leg (knee) check and still get in under the guard. Then hammer the punk, don't let him recover.

I'm not sure what you are refering to as a spining roundhouse, but if you are having problems, go back and look at your basics. That is where I usually find my problems lie, I get sloppy with some part of my basics. Sparing with contact, you will naturally tend to rush things a little and make mistakes. Are you turning the supporting foot enough? Bringing the knee high enough? Hips into the kick? Ballance or coordination problems (which usually translate to not enough practice)? One other possibility, which isn't really a problem. Sometimes a roundhouse kick riseing at 45' can sneak in under his guard when a horizontal kick would be picked. You may be unconsciously adapting the kick to fit the opening, which is a good thing. So if you can do the kick correctly in the air or on a bag, you may be ok. And if this kick is getting in, for Pete's sake don't change it just to look good!

daily Self tutoring with books, videos, tapes, and one partner At least this way you aren't supporting the clown. But I'd have to qualify my vote by saying it assumes you have a good partner, you get good videos and books, you have the ability to learn this way, and you are willing to put in all the extra work. And what you get still won't be as good as at a decent school with good instruction. If you do ever have to go that route, I'd highly recomend traveling for good private instruction as often as possible. Then be prepared to unlearn a lot of bad habbits. Ben there, and it is a tough way to do it.

We can all relate to that! Leg checks are a common block for low or riseing kicks, though taking a roundhouse on the knee is a bit risky. Why do you think it was intentional? Maybe the kick went higher than he anticipated and he tried to adjust the height of his check to compensate. Just playing devil's advocate here a bit. I wouldn't get too hung up on being angry with someone, unless he has a habit of using dangerous moves or being overbearing on juniors or smaller fighters when he spars. Then the instructor should step in and correct him. Alternatively, you could show up next sparing session with a set of grieves (medevil iron shin guards) and challenge him to a rematch!

You are deliberately mis-stating my point. First, you said potent=powerful. Now it =best. Potent means potent, and I've told you what that means. Feel 'freee' to equivocate, but most here know what I said and meant, especially as I've clearly said there is no one 'best' strike at least twice in this thread. Not to an extent similar to many other strikes. Vertical thrusting back knuckle- ever heard of this one? I never said it was... it is a contributer which can offer a great deal less to a backfist than to many other hits. No, you didn't say it was, but you harp on it and infer that because the back knuckle doesn't have it, it can't be potent (or powerful, or best). Back knuckles can make use of other power principals, such as speed and torque, as can all strikes. Speed is the primary component of effective power, and most (not all) back knuckles make far better use of speed than any other fist strike. Compare to a hammer fist on both fronts. Excellent example! The hammer fist is the prime reason I said "most punches". And you are correct in that it has an extremely resiliant striking surface. But I'll match the resiliance of the meaty part of the hand with the resilience of an articulated arm. A strike that penetrates, even for only a centimeter (though usually you'd get a LOT more, depending on the target) can do a lot of dammage and cause a lot of pain. A back knuckle strike to the temple can cause unconsciousness or even death with just that centimeter. How much more effect do you want? I understand that you disagree. The best thing I can tell you is to find someone in your area that knows how to use the back knuckle and work with him some. Then make an informed decission. You don't even have to come back here and admit if you find you are wrong, but at least you'll know. If your opinion doesn't change, I guess that won't matter much to any one else either, but feel free to tell me I'm wrong then. But at this time you show a marked lack of understanding of the strike as well as a penchant for distorting arguments to make your point. I think we've both made our case, and I have no desire to subject the board to a war. So I'll let you have the last shot at rebuttal. Unless you come up with another valid point, or make such a wildly misleading claim that I can't ignore it, I'll leave this to the individual board members to decide for themselves. G'day.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/evolution.html Those were some tough mofo's. They did a lot of things differently. Punches to the head weren't as hard without the protection of gloves, and they had to hit correctly or they'd dammage their own fist. Their stance was also more upright, more like many martial arts stances. They also used the back knuckle strike a lot. It was one of their primary strikes. Check out the link above. It has a lot ofgood information in it.

I know the choices are tough. But ballance them against having to give it all up in a few years. And if you think keeping weight under control is a problem now, wait until you can't get around or exercise much! I'd recomend talking with your doctor about specifics, but generally just doing the normal stretches works well for me. But don't overdo it, and I'd lay off adding any kind of mechanical force to your stretches (like ropes). I let pain be my guide, and if it feels like I maybe doing dammage I stop. For this reason I do not take any pain medications. Besides, most pain relievers are NSAIDS, which are not good for arthritus.

Sure. I can go along with that. The 'best' move, or strike, is the one that works in the given situation. As I said earlier, I prefer a complete, ballanced arsenal, which includes the full repertoir (bet I spelled that wrong ) of back fists. By the way, that guy sounds more like the clown than anything else.

F-w, you may not be that experienced, but that is excellent advice you are giving. Ises, is the arthritus due to an old injury? If so, you might be able to avoid further injury by altering your style to not stress that knee. Do your kicks with the right only. Talk with a good physical therapist to set up an exercise routine to strengthen your knees. You should also start a regimin of dietary suppliments to enhance joint health. Glucosimine and chondroiten sulfates and MSM, and vitamin C with the MSM. There are also several herbs to help joint health and reduce inflamation. Also look at modifying your diet. You should talk with a knowlegable Naturepath about this. Possibly changing arts is a good idea. I'd look for one that incorporates softer moves, such as any of the Kenpo styles or internal styles. Also try to find a knowlegable instructor who is willing to work with you. And lay off the high kicks. Even kicking with the right may stress the knee of the supporting leg. Keeping active is important to maintaining joint health, but only if you are careful. I have a similar problem. It isn't the end of your journey, but it does make the journey a little more interesting. Good luck.

Usually when people find out they're uncomfortable I don't get it a lot. But some people are just insecure by nature and either come across with "that **** doesn't work", or they want to show you how much they know (???). Some really annoying types want to regale you with stories of how they, or their (pick one: father, brother, cousin, uncle, mothers' half sisters' fathers' uncles' wifes' third cousin) killed (pick one: 10, 100, 1000, so many they couldn't count them) (pick one: men, enemy soldiers, rabid dogs, 'they' weren't sure what th' heck those thangs were). A lot of people know I study martial arts, but I don't brag or dwell on it with non practitioners. When they ask what I study, I tell them Tai Chi, and they just think I'm a health nut and don't say much. It's easier that way.

Definition: Straw man argument- a fallacy of logical discusssion wherein one person attempts to set up his opponents argument in terms and format that he can then easily defeat, but which do not accurately represent the argument set forth by his opponent.Example: So you assertion: The backfist is better than any other strike. Your support: The backfist is better *because* it has the same characteristics as the strikes it's better than? No, Jerry, I did not assert that. You said it was lacking in these principles. I said it was not. And I did not say it was 'better', I said it was more potent, and I said why I thought that. OK, you're forgiven. Just try to think more clearly in the future. OK? Ah, these again. I've already answered those concerns so I suppose we'll just have to disagree untill you come across someone who can demonstrate to you the proper methods of useing back fists. But again, your body is alligned behind some types of back fists. Muscular strength is not the only contributor to power in a strike. I can get much more waist movement in some back fist strikes than you can in most punches. And the striking surface in a backfist is as, or more resilient than that of other punches. I know you disagree, but there you are. I'd love to see you support that claim... disappated force applies evenly over a alrge area, which would attempt to break by over-stressing the whole, as opposed to over-stressing a part. The effect of placking a phone-book over someone then hitting it with a bat is to remove surface trauma and increase internal trauma... this seems to be "penetrating" by definition. Since putting a phone book on a slab makes it easier to break, penitration seems to be the best breaking hit. Wish gladly granted. But first we need to clear up our terminology, otherwise we'll end up arguing semantics. What you are talking about is an internal transfer of power, which can be one type of penetration. I used the term in a more simplistic form as in a small striking surface vs. a relatively larger striking surface. Similar to elbow strikes, where you can use the point to attack soft targets such as the solar plexus (penetration), or the flat bony surface just distal to the point to attack harder areas such as the spine (dissipation). Another analogy would be a nail. The hammer strikes the nail head, a relatively larger dissipating surface, and the nail point penetrates the wood. In a back knuckle strike the large center knuckle should lead and is the striking surface. Relative to the strikes you would use to break a brick, this is a small (penetrating) striking surface. Striking a brick with only one knuckle would likely cause 'reverse penetration' (if there is such a thing), i.e. a broken knuckle. Striking most body parts with a backfist using this same knuckle concentrates a lot of force on a small area and will more than get his attention. It will hurt and even injure him. No more or less so than for any other fist strike. And I've had my cage rattled by back knuckles,so I can state that from experience!!!

G95champ, I'm only commenting on this one instructor. And you are right, except that I'd check on any instructor before investing time and money. The good ones won't mind, as they can stand the scrutiny and also have a vested interest in prospective students weeding out the bad ones. I'd be a little leery of an 8th degree teaching a regular class on a consistant basis, though. Not saying it isn't done, but by the time they reach that level most would have several instructors under them. As for rank, it's a lot like a college degree. It isn't just the degree that counts, but the college that conferred it. You can buy a doctorate if you are willing to fork out the bucks, just like rank for sale in the ma mags. Doesn't mean any one will honor it. Mr. Parker said it simply, "Stripes show, don't mean you know." Doesn't mean you don't know, either. Good point.

And all are available to you in pretty much every type of hit.. they are therefore not useful on ctonrasting a backfist with another type of hand strike.[/i] Of course they are available in other strikes! The point is that these same principles and concepts are available in the back fist, a point you seemed to have missed or misunderstood. I wasn't contrasting, I was favorably comparing. That would deal with some element of the problem... as "potent" means "powerful"... but I still see no shining advantage of a backfist over other techniques (as a general statement), while I can see general drawbacks.[/i] I looked it up. The term potent relates to power and ability, particularly the ability to effectively exercise power. The terms I used with power were fast, flexable and versatile- all things that enhance the ability to use the power of that strike. I briefly listed some examples to support my point. Now, I'm curiouse. What drawbacks do you see? Pretty rare breaking strike neh? I wonder why?[/i] That is totally irrelavant to the use of the backfist in combat. Many effective strikes are not used to break bricks and boards. But they work. However, since you were wondering, the primary reason is: This is a penetrating strike. If you are going to assault innocent bricks, boards, and the like, you need to use dissipating strikes, or you'll break you instead of them.

Ok. I was not arguing with you over any claims to the title instructor. Just making sure there was no confusion. That is an earned title and I would not even claim to be a McInstructor until I reach that level of competence and take on a class. You said that's the title you'd put on anyone making the claim I did and I wanted to clear any possible confusion. Not a really big issue. Your last statement about the straw man fallacy is incorrect also. You did say you like the punch, but you go on to denigrade it. That's like saying 'I like you, but you stink, you're stupid, and you can't fight.' So, you like the punch, but you don't think much of it. You try to convince us it is ineffective (but likeable).

Interestingly, that's the title I'd put on anyone making the claim you just did. I like backfists, don't get me wrong, but "most potent"? By definition, your body's not behid the hit; the musles involved in delivering (quadracep and back of the forearm) are not the strongest, waist movement is more limited, and the striking surface is less resiliant than in several other hits. I tend to think of the open hand as the most useful single strike; and probibly the punch as next in line (though I have a fondness for the whip as well). First, I never claimed to be instructing anyone- just to clear that point. Next, there is more to power than having your body mass and structure behind it. Speed, torque, backup mass are all power principles. Accuracy and flow can also enhance power. And my term was 'potent', not just powerful. Included in that term is power and a lot more. Fast, flexable, versatile. They can be delivered from any angle, snaping, whiping or thrusting. They can lead or follow, are great off a spin, can go to front, back, or sides. They can drop straight off a block or parry, or can convert from another strike to adjust for the opponents maneuvers. And some types of backfist do have the body behind the 'hit', and in structural allighnmet. A whiping back knuckle is extremely resiliant, also. I don't know how you do back knuckles, but the ones I've seen and done are pretty potent. {Incidentally, they are no more risky than any other strike, nor do they leave you more open (unless you are chambering it first).} I also like open hand strikes, though I wouldn't say they are the most useful. Everything has its uses, and often it comes down to personal preference. I prefer a ballanced and complete arsenal myself. But my statement here ws concerning fist strikes. To each his own, Jerry. But don't discourage others from learning to use this strike. You are doing them a seriouse disservice by that. It's potent..., danged potent! Most potent fist strike you can develope, if done correctly!

Use the weapon that fits the target and gives the desired effect. Know the strengths and limmitations of each and pick the one that works.

A good back fist, properly executed, is the most potent fist strike in your arsenal. Any one who teaches different is a McInstructor! As an 8th deg., I suppose that makes him close to a McMaster?

I'm primarily a striker, and my style trains a lot of stand up grappling. But I'd eventually like to be competent enough to handle myself on the ground. Which is better? Depends on whether you're up or down when you answer that!

I train in two- my base is American Kenpo and I also train in Taiji. I also work out regularly with some TKD and Arnis folks, and some crazy grapplers (as if there was any other kind ). I figure variety is the spice of life, and I enjoy working with and comparing different styles. Does it work? Well, a week ago one of the Arnis guys was showing me some disarms. One was for a right forehand strike immediately followed by a backhand. The defense is to yield back so the forehand strike misses, then move in and block the backhand with your right hand. Your left hand circles over his wrist, then under as you turn your body left and yield back again, striping his weapon. I said I thought I understood it, so he swung at me hard and without warning. I reacted, but not exactly as he'd said. I got the yield back first part, which is a normal surprise reaction. But when I steped in it was Kenpo footwork and a pressing check to the backhand swing and a Taiji Chin-na wrist lock (think Needle at Sea Bottom if you know Yang Taiji) that occured before the press completed. A yield to the right extended his arm at 45' and it was over before either of us knew what had happened. I couldn't have planed that even if I'd had the time, I just reacted. So what's the point? Well; a.) mixing styles can work, even if you aren't a master (which I'm definately not). b.) I've been looking for an excuse to tell that story for a week now, so there you are !